Just Play The Fills,man

Steve Kritz · Post by **Steve Kritz** » 11 Sep 2002 7:35 am

Question for you guys that play professionally,ladies included.Was coming home from work afew weekends ago and caught The Connie Smith Show on WWVA,from The Capital Music Hall in Wheeling WVa.Tuned in right in the middle of Johnnie Cox playing Steel Guitar Rag,By the way John,your a fabulous player.My question is,how many of you players get a chance to showcase your talent as a solo player,if so,what do you like to play? Or is it simply"just play the fills,man.Also would ask The Forum to Pray for our country on this memorable day.God Bless America.Thanks

Joe Smith · Post by **Joe Smith** » 11 Sep 2002 1:40 pm

Well Steve, that's a good question. It depends on the gig. Sometimes I get hired as a sideman. On these gigs I stick to the arrangments. I am not there to show off. Usually there are no instrumentals.

If I am playing with the bands that I normaly gig with, I do get to play some instrumentals.

One of my favorite songs to play is "Somewhere Over The Rainbow".

So I guess it depends on the type of gig and who I'm playing with.

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Playing PSG keeps you on your toes.

[This message was edited by Joe Smith on 11 September 2002 at 03:02 PM.][This message was edited by Joe Smith on 11 September 2002 at 03:24 PM.]

DJ Sillito · Post by **DJ Sillito** » 11 Sep 2002 2:25 pm

I hope you don't mind me commenting here? I play on the average a couple weekends a month but don't consider myself a pro in any means but I can relate to your topic. The songs I look forward to playing because of the steel licks, intros, etc. include:
-Don't rock the Jukebox- Allan J
-Above and beyond - Rodney Crowell
-Look at us - Vince G
-Jumbalaya - Asleep at the whhel version
-Rose of San Antone
-Long neck bottle -Garth Brooks
-Heartbroke -Ricky Skaggs
...just to name a few. I totally look forward to these songs eventhough Rose of San Antone is the only instrumental I play.
However, we play a lot of top 40 stuff where steel is added only for a subtle effect like a long slide or a harmonic plucked here and there. Sometimes I feel like I am just making noises in the background not really following a melody (if there is one)or any chord progression to speak of just fading in and out for effect. Which is OK of course. I enjoy the opportunity to play in a band who enjoys the steel guitar so I'm not complaining , but those opportunities to take a solo or to kick off an intr/outro etc.I absolutely live for. Just my $0.02 worth.

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Darren James
Carter D-10 8P 5K
Nashville 400, ProfexII

Ray Montee (RIP) · Post by **Ray Montee (RIP)** » 11 Sep 2002 11:00 pm

Way back in time, let's say, ahhhhhh, before the 1970's, when country bands were really bands with great "local" musicians, good solid arrangements and fine vocalists to play behind.....I was always expected to provide not less than one instrumental for each half hour live radio show; same for the live television shows, and two or more per hour for the regular dance gigs.
These included twin guitars and occasionally a fiddle thrown in to further enhance the arrangement.
During more recent times, I've discovered that many c/w groups seldom feature the steel guitar except for bastardized versions of Steel Guitar Rag and/or Orange Blossom Special. Seldom does one hear ANY two-guitar arrangements, let alone any three part instrumentals. In fact, most of the pickers in this area who can't carry a melody line for even Tennessee Waltz....show a serious lack of understanding for what is required to play a harmony arrangment with other musicians. Some groups tend have open competition between artists, as to WHO can play the loudest, fastest and/or whatever. I find this to be a sad development for it certainly limits the great sounds that can be had whether a balad or western swing number....not to mention the fun and excitement of doing so and being able to see the way the crowd responds to this type of performance.
The Australian group featured in St.Louis recently....is one of the first groups I've seen in ages that even attempted to play harmony arrangements. It was really exciting to hear!
On the other hand, I've always considered myself to be a "back-up" musician and truly enjoy providing the most flavorful sounds possible in order to enhance the singers efforts. That's how I see it from where I sit.[This message was edited by Ray Montee on 12 September 2002 at 12:05 AM.]

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 12 Sep 2002 1:25 am

Steve, although I am no Pro by any stretch of the imagination , I did gig for a kazillion years from the 70's thru the late 80's and am gigging a little bit now once again.

Quite honestly I think it's more appropriate to play closer to the melody in normal gig situations unless the occassion calls for a "Hot Toddy " which in my case is rare. .The band I gig with at the current time would probably get lost if I strayed to far off the melody line so thats another option to consider. When I gigged earlier in life I did play outside the box quite often, but many times I did that 'cause I had never played close to the melody to begin with. Now..it's a different story. I don't get much chance to play Instrumentals, I wish I could, but the band is not thinking along those lines. The tunes we play I try to stay close to the recorded version and licks which is OK as most of them are Paul Franklin related and they are a Steel lesson in themselves just to learn them !

Concerning Johnny Cox, he is a brilliant player and I would think that at some point during a show his talent would be showcased.

tp

John Lacey · Post by **John Lacey** » 12 Sep 2002 5:26 am

Although I'm a working pro, my main gig is a jam gig that puts me in a subsiduary role as a steel player, albeit with a lot of responsiblity. I'm also the oldest guy in the band so I'm usually the one stuck kicking the song off cause I know more songs, unless it's NCS. On gigs I used to do, it depended on how long I'd spent with the band and how rehearsed it was. The most instrumentals probably happened when I played with Calvin Vollrath and Redd Vollkaert. We had some nice arrangements worked out, didn't we Redd?

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 12 Sep 2002 5:49 am

I'm also the oldest guy in the band so I'm usually the one stuck kicking the song off cause I know more songs, unless it's NCS

Been there, done THAT! And I got the T-shirt and the cap.

The most instrumentals probably happened when I played with Calvin Vollrath and Redd Vollkaert. We had some nice arrangements worked out, didn't we Redd?

And you are a very fortunate player, as well as highly skilled.

I too am fortunate in that with Cornell Hurd I generally get to play two instrumentals per night lately, as well as contribute to instrumentals featuring the fiddle player, sax player, pianist, or lead guitarist. Cornell likes to feature the band prominently.

With Johnny Bush, I'll get to play an instrumental during the Bandoleros portion of the show, and maybe one during Johnny's set. The instrumentals when John is onstage are usually feature the fiddles, things like "Liberty," "Faded Love," "Cotton Eye Joe/Schottische", that kind of stuff.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Redd V · Post by **Redd V** » 12 Sep 2002 6:26 am

Yeah!!
The band that John Lacey talks of was a real fun band and for me a true learning experience.

The singer let us play what ever we felt would make the song work. Instrumentals were always featured. Back then people even danced to them.

When I play with the Hag I "TRY" to play for the song, but when he calls an instrumental, like Herb's gig, it's usually a fiddle tune, and I'll get a chorus in once in a while. When we play him on or off stage we can twist off a little bit as well!

I have the luxury of having my own little band at home here and fortunately for me, I call as many instrumentals as I want, with in reason, mine.
Sorry for the rant! Redd

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 12 Sep 2002 12:19 pm

Redd! When did you sneak in here, you rascal!

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 12 Sep 2002 1:38 pm

Apparently he snuck in 16 posts ago! Well, welcome!

My own situation is different. (I like it that way.) Since I founded the band and am still the bandleader, we do all kinds of tunes where I can play lots of steel. Stuff like "Straight No Chaser", "Billie's Bounce", "C-Side Blues", "Kicks to Boot",etc. Plus, on most of the vocal tunes, I'll get a solo or two in there, trading off with the sax and/or fiddle on stuff like "Heart of a Clown", "My Window Faces the South", etc. By the end of the evening I've played just about everything I know, at least on C6. It helps to start your own band; why don't more guys do that? Who says the singer has to call the shots?

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The "Master of Acceptable Tone"
www.jimcohen.com

[This message was edited by Jim Cohen on 12 September 2002 at 02:40 PM.]

Wayne Cox · Post by **Wayne Cox** » 12 Sep 2002 7:11 pm

Well guys, I take a sneakier approach. in these days of R&B nad rap,etc.,steel instrumentals aren't as popular as they once were,so I started singing more. I let the band get used to me doing a few "ballards",then when they least expect it,I sneak in an instrumental!

Janice Brooks · Post by **Janice Brooks** » 13 Sep 2002 2:52 am

Redd probibly got a nudge Sunday night after the Haybale gig when 3 other foram members were there (I was glad to meet Tommy Detamore)
Herb is right about Cornell's Band in that Paul Skelton is likly to come up with any rif such as inserting Heart and Soul into an arrangment of Do You Want To Dance.

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Janice "Busgal" Brooks
ICQ 44729047
[This message was edited by Janice Brooks on 13 September 2002 at 07:17 AM.]

joe long · Post by **joe long** » 13 Sep 2002 6:55 am

I am very lucky. The band that I have been playing with the past 5 years let me do 3-4 instrumentals a night. Most times I will play something I consider pretty and danceable. I also play on a couple of opry shows and get a couple of tunes on those shows. There I pick something which is fairly easy to play to accommodate the experience level of the other musicians. One of my favorite numbers is "Know One Will Ever Know".

Emmett Roch · Post by **Emmett Roch** » 13 Sep 2002 7:45 am

My boss (Gary P. Nunn) naturally wants the signature lines of the songs to be played as they were on his records, but he gives me plenty of free space on the fills. He often turns us loose and lets us do a song or two; Gary usually asks me to play "San Antonio Rose". But if he just says to the crowd "Here´s the Sons Of The Bunk House Band to do one for you", we usually decide on some good ol' honky-tonk shuffle sung by our bass man Steve Layne, or I´ll call out some dance-able old standard which we´ll do as an instrumental.

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GFI S-12 extended E9

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 13 Sep 2002 9:03 am

I expect to solo on every tune (I don't lift heavey objects into smelly bars to just sit there and look pretty!

).

As fate would have it, I often play with a different guitarist (or sometimes it's me and a harmonica player, no guitar).

The core group, bass, steel, and acoustic rhythm guitar/vocals have been playing together for 5 years.
But we've gone through our share of guitarists and drummers.

In order to keep from playing over each other we just go with a formula to avoid the wondering if it's my solo or your solo thing.

Since I know most of the songs (originals), I play (most of) the intros/endings.
I take fills on the second verse, and take the second solo (or second half of a split solo).
The rest is the guitar players (or sometimes harmonica).
I take my hands completely off the steel so there is no question that it's the other guys turn to play.

BTW, I still hate B-benders, and make that known to any guitarist that shows up with one!

Oh.. We do a few steel instrumentals...
Pan Handle Rag...
The basterdized version of SGR Ray speaks of was probably my group!

Ray Montee (RIP) · Post by **Ray Montee (RIP)** » 14 Sep 2002 9:31 am

But Pete.......when you're sitting there, YOU ARE PRETTY! An added bonus for your audience.

And about "B-Benders"...? What did they ever do to you, ole buddy? Are you just getting set in your ways, now that you're aging somewhat? Just curious now, in no way to be construed as any form of criticism.

If you haven't heard Pete play steel...you're missing something. He has a distinctly "original" or "creative flair" and it is refreshing to hear this among our steel playing fraternity.

Keep up the great steelin' Pete, my boy.

I can give anyone that's interested, a great price on a nearly new "B-Bender". Anyone interested?

NO PETE! the SGR reference I made was NOT any reference to YOU. You're a great player![This message was edited by Ray Montee on 14 September 2002 at 10:34 AM.]

Ken Lang · Post by **Ken Lang** » 14 Sep 2002 2:50 pm

What kinda price have you got in mind for the B bender?

John Russell · Post by **John Russell** » 23 Sep 2002 3:36 pm

Oh man, I like B-benders. Depends on who's doing the bending. (Check out that guy in Diamond Rio. Caution: they probably qualify as "NCS" but can PICK.)

Back to the subject: Yeah Herb, I been there too! At this time, I only play in my trio, the Tone Rangers. We do only "OCS" and swing music. That means plenty of solos and instrumentals. This is the place I've wanted to be for years. Plus I get to sing.

It seemed to me that for the past 10 or so years, the steel guitar was just window dressing for some handsome guy to strut and sing. The number of notes you actually heard out of the steel guitar were considerably less than you heard from the lead guitar and fiddle. That's too bad but we adjust. My solution was to start smaller band where I had to play all the time just to complete the sound. My inspiration for this was, among other things, "Bucky and Doug" featuring Bucky Pizarelli, guitar and Doug Jernigan, steel. Two great players who get to solo all they want.
--JR

Junior Knight · Post by **Junior Knight** » 25 Sep 2002 6:02 am

The only time I play an instrumental is when I tune up!

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Bb is where it's at!

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 25 Sep 2002 1:34 pm

When a guitar player starts using a B-bender, I just start doing Merle Travis licks on the steel. They get the message...real fast!

John De Maille · Post by **John De Maille** » 25 Sep 2002 3:58 pm

Waaaay back in the 80's, I played for Jean Shepard, Bobby Borchers, and only one set with Johnny Paycheck. Those gigs were just one timers, and I was expected to play their signature sounds on their hits. I worked with several other bands then, and I was able to play a lot of steel during the night. But, really, very few instumentals. Sometimes, when we did the all day jambories, I was able to play some. It was all, a great learning experience.

Jerry Brightman · Post by **Jerry Brightman** » 25 Sep 2002 6:32 pm

Jr,

What key do you play that instrumental in

Jerry http://www.slidestation.com

Junior Knight · Post by **Junior Knight** » 26 Sep 2002 4:46 am

The key of L....sounds like L to me..

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Bb is where it's at!