Variety at Steel Shows

Lynn Kasdorf · Post by **Lynn Kasdorf** » 22 Apr 2002 10:13 am

Hi. I'm not trying to step on any toes here, but I just got back from the Steelin' for Hearts show, and have a question for you all.

Why is it there are basically two types of tunes that you here at a steel show-
1. Up tempo C6 swing tunes
2. Slow, weepy E9 ballads

While categories 1 and 2 are fine, how come you rarely hear:
1. E9 speed picking
2. E9 medium temp honky tonk tunes
3. Backing a singer

As much as enjoyed hearing Herby Wallace, Hal Rugg, Tommy White, Buddy Charleton, and the others, I kept waiting for them to tear it up on an E9 barn-burner. I know they can do it. Dean Black absolutely smoked OBS, but that was the only fast e9 I heard all day.

Buddy did play some nice honky tonk stuff, and had a singer up to do some Ray Price & ET. That was very nice. And Hal did "down to my last cigarette", which was a treat.

But in general, when these great players switch on that top neck, we can pretty much count on 9 minutes of a slow ballad. I wonder why that is?

Just my $.02

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 22 Apr 2002 10:28 am

*[This message was edited by Gene Jones on 01 May 2002 at 04:06 PM.]

JB Arnold · Post by **JB Arnold** » 22 Apr 2002 11:24 am

In Dallas, you get the variety you are seeking, but that's Texas, and that's another planet. In St Louis, the audience starts to get restless if you venture too far from the E9th shuffles. I saw people-more than just a few-walking out of Paul Franklin's HOF set in an absolute uproar because he wasn't playing straight country. I mean throwing their hands in the air and loudly proclaiming "I Can't Take It Anymore!" and walking out.

The reality is-at most of those shows the crowd expects to hear certain songs. Sometimes a whole bunch of times. There really isn't much interest in anything resembling adventure.

JB

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Dave Van Allen · Post by **Dave Van Allen** » 22 Apr 2002 12:22 pm

Lynn, I understand your point... there is a somewhat formula format for steel shows, but still...there were some exceptions to the rules in yesterday's show

I don't know what time you arrived, but if you were there for my (opening)set several of your criteria were covered; I performed with Last Train Home as my "backup band", we did two vocal numbers (both originals,that we play regularly) one a slow number I chose specifically to display the way I typically back our singers and "texture" a song, and the other was an uptempo "barn burner" with plenty of brisk E9 pickin'. the rest of my setlist was not your usual Jam repertoire...But I am just one guy in a day full of stuff.

Dave Giegerich and THe Hula Monsters presentation was also atypical.

Jim Cohen's set was diverse (Little Surfer Girl for cryin out loud!), "of the steel show genre" yet generally not the standard tune selection

the show was also graced by the presence of Resophiles Mike Auldrige, Jim Hefernan and Hal Rugg on a PedaBro...in another presentation pretty far from the typical fare.

and I will say every E9 weeper and C6th swinger for the rest of the day was played as well as you will hear anywhere...how could they not be?

I had fun... trying not to analyze it too much. Like Tommy Hannum says "It's Not Rocket Science"

Robert Todd · Post by **Robert Todd** » 22 Apr 2002 12:55 pm

At the Chattanooga show Jernigan and Mike Sigler and others just tore up the the E9 on such blue grass standards as Oarnge Blossom special and Black Mountauin Rag while Joe Wright played Sweet Home Alabama to make the VanZandt boys jealous. And Pete Burak did Rock a Billy there's good rocking at Midnight and Southern Rock Melissa

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 22 Apr 2002 12:59 pm

JB,
I was there when you say people walked out. I didn't see that!
For the Variety at these Steel Shows, we do hear the same songs and not much new material. I've only been to St.Louis other than to Stoney's, which we miss deeply.That's a sad thing for steelguitar. We want new players to be interested. Let's show them new stuff 2002!
Theresa

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 22 Apr 2002 1:58 pm

I was at the show, and thought the variety was good. If you didn't hear something you like, well...I guess you can't please everybody!

There was plenty of speed-picking, jazz, and slow stuff, as well as both country and alt country dobro playing. Dave and the Hula Monsters and Bill Kirchen provided a break from the "standard" pedal steel stuff.

I didn't care for the venue (too close to the D.C. "daily traffic jam").

Tommy did some good speed-picking! It's hard to feature all styles on all tunings in the limited time, and speed picking is speed picking, regardless of what tuning you choose.

Roger Miller · Post by **Roger Miller** » 22 Apr 2002 2:17 pm

Just think how boring it would be if you played only what the crowd wanted, and it is your show. You can't please them all and variety is a nice thing, please continue, a back-up guy like me wears out on Sleepwalk played 8 times a day.

Gary Lee Gimble · Post by **Gary Lee Gimble** » 22 Apr 2002 2:43 pm

"(too close to the D.C. "daily traffic jam").'
Donny, there was an abundance of planned demonstrations orchestrated around our nations capital yesterday. Traffic is generally non existent on Sunday unless I'm booked around town and everyone is dying to hear me pick. ha ha ha Yeah right!

As much time as you obviously spend on this Forum, you should dedicate some time tuning in on the local radio stations and check out what is going on. Our X mayor of DC could possibly be newsworthy enough to cause a massive traffic jam! Glad you came out yesterday, lack of E9 speed pickin and all. FYI, I can speed pick Foggy Mt. Letdown in the key of E with no problem.

On banjo that is! Mach 5.7 too!

Gary Lee

chas smith R.I.P. · Post by **chas smith R.I.P.** » 22 Apr 2002 3:00 pm

1. E9 speed picking

I was at one of the Conventions where about every other player was a machine gun to the point where it prompted Jerry Byrd to say "I've spent a lifetime trying to play as few notes as possible." I can appreciate jaw-dropping technique as much as the next person, but great technique is not automatically great music.

Danny Hullihen · Post by **Danny Hullihen** » 22 Apr 2002 4:39 pm

For those of you who haven't had the opportunity hear him yet, Jerry Brightman is the kind of person who can play all the great standards we all love to hear, but in a second of time, can take this instrument to the edge of practically any type and style of music you could think of. These type of requests are exactly the type of things that Jerry does at the steel shows. I have personally heard some of Jerry's uncirculated recordings, and I don't mind telling you, I was extremely impressed with the things Jerry could do with this instrument!

With regards to people walking out on Paul Franklin's show, although I can believe that might happen, and have seen it, it is indeed a very sad shame that anyone would really want to do that. As some of you may or may not know, Paul has been very influential in taking the steel guitar to many different realms of music, and with that,(in my opinion,)is helping to keep the steel guitar alive and appealing to many audiences. Personally, I love to hear the crying sounds only a steel guitar can make as much as,(or perhaps even more than) the next steel guitar fan. But on the other hand, I have been to performances where Paul didn't play a country song all night, and I was just as glued to my chair to listen to Paul playing "other types" of music as I was in listening to him playing pure country. It's not just the "type of music" being played that's entertaining, but even more so, the huge amount of talent that's required to be able to do just about anything you're asked to do on this instrument.

I'm not suggesting that we should campaign to take the steel guitar in an entirely different direction, what I am hoping for here is that we will all want to support the instrument, and the player, regardless of what direction it takes. The more appealing the steel guitar becomes to more audiences, the better for all concerned, be it a builder, or generations of players yet to come.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 22 Apr 2002 4:58 pm

As the popularity of steel guitar widens, as evidenced by (for example) the Sacred Steelers ascent into notoriety, there will necessarily be some folks that walk out on a particular performer, but it stands to reason that some will also walk in.

Some folks are fans of classical guitar, some are fans of country guitar, some are fans of rock guitar. Few are fans of ALL styles of guitar. Currently in PSG circles, country dominates the stylistic bandwidth, but that is changing, albeit slowly. Bear in mind that the steel show phenomenon is barely 30 years old, and the instrument itself is barely 50 years old.

As guys like Robert Randolph, Bob Hoffnar, and others with a broader vision of the instrument take their place in the realm of popular players, the audience will expand as well and they and the adventurous players of the past and present, such as Paul F. and Buddy C. will find new listeners. And new attendees to steel shows. When the old-timers walk out, the newbies will walk in.

The last couple of years saw Sacred Dudes Lonnie Bennett and Chuck Campbell attending ISGC. Be patient. What goes around comes around.

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Fred Murphy · Post by **Fred Murphy** » 22 Apr 2002 5:50 pm

If you ever get to hear Mike Sigler play Rocky Top you are in for a treat. He played it at Chatanooga, and did it the best and the fastest that I have ever heard it played. A real monster.

Jody Sanders · Post by **Jody Sanders** » 22 Apr 2002 9:03 pm

For a great variety and a great show, come to Tulsa, Ok. Memorial Day weekend. Fri. Sat. and Sunday. Darrell McCall with Mike Cass on steel, Bobby Flores on fiddle and Justin Trevino On bass and harmony vocals and lead cocals. If you haven't heard Les Gilliams Western Swing Band, you will be in for a treat. See you there. Jody.

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 22 Apr 2002 9:13 pm

Someone said "I just threw my hands in the air", I want to know what they caught them with! (or how they picked them up!)

Gaylon Mathews · Post by **Gaylon Mathews** » 23 Apr 2002 5:32 am

When Carl Dixon put on the Steel show in Atlanta for a couple of years, I was invited to play. I brought my entire band and backed the singer for the entire set except for one instrumental. We done songs like Highway 40 Blues, Farewell Party, Dreams Of A Dreamer, I'm Tired, Is It Raining At Your House, etc..etc.. Anyway, I had many, many folks tell me after the show that my set was a very welcome change to the normal routine of most steel shows. As much as I love Panhandle Rag & Mansion On The Hill, I can only take it so long before everything starts running together. I would really like to see a couple of sets of good country music during the course of a steel show to add variety and help break the routine up a little. I also like the stuff Franklin does even though sometimes it's not country. Variety is good in my book. Not the Gospel, just my opinion.

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Bob Stone · Post by **Bob Stone** » 23 Apr 2002 6:03 am

Dare to attend the Sacred Steel Convention and "take the cure." Plenty of variety. Almost no E9 or C6. Always surprises. Always magic.

Anyone who saw and heard Lonnie Bennett and Chuck Campbell at the ISGC experienced only the tiniest tip of one soulful iceberg.

Visit www.sacredsteelconvention.com

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 23 Apr 2002 7:52 am

Gary, respectfully, I and a lot of others don't have your familiarity with the D.C. area. When people not familiar with the area are going somewhere, they have to rely on directions, and we can't get directions contingent on every occurance that might happen. Having the show in an area known for it's traffic problems doesn't help anyone. In other words, your views are noted, but not germain. The Birchmere is a larger and cleaner venue, and we had plenty of "big guns" (Tommy, Herby, Hal, Buddy, Mike, etc.) there to attract an audience. Nevertheless, attendance was definitely down from previous years, (even Bobby Black emphasized this point on stage). Maybe the price increases (both tickets and drinks) turned people off, but I have to believe that many people weren't happy with location (I wasn't...but I went anyway). The former venue (Latella's) was always crowded, grungy, and the service was poor...but you never had a problem getting there!

Maybe you can enlighten us as to why the attendance wasn't better?

Shorty Coltey · Post by **Shorty Coltey** » 23 Apr 2002 11:13 am

Having read the comments so far, and I asked at one of the shows why the origanal sounds of the steel guitar are not played anymore. Those that had the "Speedy West" or "Jerry Byrd" sounds. Not to mention any names as that would not be appropreate, the answer was that those tunes require a back up band that is familar with the player and the way the song is done. I understand that players can not bring a back up band and their are certainly great back up musicians but when you work togeather for a period of time things just "go better". I think of Leon Rhodes and Buddy Charelton and Jimmy Bryannt and Speedy West. As one player said "I brought my own band" which allowed the different styles. The other thing that bothers me (and it shouldn't) is that the great steel players put 40 thousands notes in a song and it sounds just like a electric guitar which can do the same thing. Sometimes in a jam it takes one of the guys to bring it back to the melody so you recognize the song. I can't speed pick and have gotten to old and the fingers (I don't think)just wouldn't do it. I certainly enjoy a fast number and have been attending steel guitar shows for 20 years, including Saint Louis. Someone will ask me if so and so is the best, I don't know, I haven't heard them all. You's get a better answer from Scotty as he more or less has been around the world. Well I've said it and I hope I didn't step on anyones toes. Shorty LBL (Little But Loud).

Gary Lee Gimble · Post by **Gary Lee Gimble** » 23 Apr 2002 11:45 am

Location, location, location @ $55.00 per square foot. Triple net..yuk, but you have to start somewhere. I don't know the specific head count, but I do know the numbers yielded a bottom line. For whatever reason(s), a smaller turnout at this juncture is not relevant. The proprietors at the Birchmere are more than satisfied and so is the Steelin for Hearts staff. As you may not know, the Birchmere has been successfully packing in crowds for many years and one of our main goals is to attract people who would not normally go to a steel show. I realize the inception of this jam was featuring mostly local players, but with the decline in popularity of pedal steel, there is a good chance to give some positive exposure to our beloved instrument.

As a rule, Sunday traffic is not an issue but I still tune in WTOP-1500AM and listen to the every ten minute traffic report. You never know when some slob gets caught cheating on his spouse and feels the only way to repent is to climb up a bridge and jump. BTW, Bobby's first name is Dean

Anyway, to answer your question with specifics would only be my speculatory opinion, nothing definitive. The positive end of all this is that we have an opportunity to grow and feature steel in areas that would certainly not appease die hard country folk. I saw in another thread where people walked out from PF's set at the ISGC a couple of years ago. Too bad for them. At least Paul didn't screech out a Snoop Doggy Dog ditty!

Donny, I hope a ray of light made an impression from my babbling, my ADHD has been kicking all day so I better get off this computer. I've been asked to play next year which means I've been experiencing the next best thing to a high fiber diet. Time to practice, lord knows I need it.

BTW, my band is playing at Coyote Bob's this Friday and Saturday in Thomasville, Pa. 717-792-4871 Come out and make me sweat and yes, the first couple of rounds are on me.
Gary Lee

Paul E Vendemmia · Post by **Paul E Vendemmia** » 23 Apr 2002 1:01 pm

I don't want to listen to the same crap that i have to listen to on the radio. I would like to listen to what the STEEL PLAYERS want to say with there music We at Steelin' For Hearts all work very hard to bring you this show to you. And I would like to listen to someone that had a good time. And stop allthe silly little complaint's. Why don't we just appreciate the good thing in life.
My mother told me if you don't have something nice to say then keep your mouth closed. Remember we are a Non-Profit show
Any of you want to try to put on a show
i'll go to it and sit listen and enjoy
thanks Paul E Vendemmia

Johan Jansen · Post by **Johan Jansen** » 23 Apr 2002 3:49 pm

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Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 23 Apr 2002 4:18 pm

When people cease to complain, they cease to think.

I think Napoleon said that, and I am inclined to agree.

By the way, Paul, I've attended 11 of the 14 shows.

Lynn Kasdorf · Post by **Lynn Kasdorf** » 24 Apr 2002 8:03 am

Paul- you and Dean did a fantastic job, and I had a great time at the show. I only wish I had been able to see more of it.

My original post may have been overly negative sounding- that was certainly not the intent.

I was mostly wondering about the apparent role of E9 as mostly for ballads. I think next year I'll make sure to catch the early acts.

I guess I'm overly sensitive on the e9 ballad thing- recently a few folks have asked me to do a little studio work for them- and it always seems that it is only on the slow tunes that they want steel. I think a lot of non-steel savvy people only asociate steel with ballads. So, I just crave something else.

Sorry to have caused a row. Back to your regularly scheduled discussion, already in progress.