I don't like playing a double neck.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 4 Feb 2002 9:00 am

After 22 years of playing a universal S-12, (and not playing the B6,) I finally got a D-12, mainly so I could have a real C6 neck. I have to say, I really like playing C6 even though I'm just beginning to learn it, but I don't like playing E9 on this guitar. I just don't like having to reach over the back neck, and I don't like the angle the string sit at. I think a single neck instrument is (at least for me) far more comfortable.

I think my next steel is going to be a single neck with a C6.

Jay Jessup · Post by **Jay Jessup** » 4 Feb 2002 9:12 am

Hi Mike,
We haven't traded e-mails much since the early aol days! I did just what you are talking about recently although for a different reason. I bought a little MCI S-10 that was on the forum a while back to have a small light guitar that wouldn't be too much in the way in a corner of an extra room upstairs so I don't have to dissapear into the basement everytime I want to sit down at the steel for a few minutes. I wound up converting it to C6 a couple of weeks ago and it has worked out quite well. Since you need to be able to operate pedals 5,6 and 7 at the same time the big question with this approach becomes which one do you put on the knee lever since it's hard to two foot the pedals so far on the left. I chose the 6'th and I know others have tried the 7'th.
Have fun with C6'th.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 4 Feb 2002 9:30 am

Mike,
That was exactly my experience. I've played a S-12 since 1974 or 75. I see you went for a D-12; I bought a D-10 -- mostly for the C6 -- and found that I can't get used to the 10-string AND I just don't like the double neck layout. I wanted the Emmons C6 changes, which requires the extra center knee levers. This also requires a shift in seating position when changing necks. I play 12-strings with pads on the back neck, so the 'reaching over' wasn't really a problem. Bottom line was, even though I played my D-10 for more than a year -- gigs, sessions, etc. -- I always felt like I was playing someone else's guitar.

I play a LOT of B6 and found very little advantage playing the dedicated C6 neck. My conclusion was similar to yours. I'm selling the D-10 and may eventually think about a S-12 C6 guitar.

I now understand how folks who learned to play on a D-10 and try to switch to a S-12U often switch back to the double neck.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Emmons D-10 9x9, 1971 Dobro

Doug Seymour · Post by **Doug Seymour** » 4 Feb 2002 10:15 am

Hi guys, I started on C6th (ala trying to copy Jerry Byrd stuff) back about 1947 & have
played it ever since. I did eventually do E9th about 1979, but I'm much more "at home"
with C6th & now have a S10 with 3 & 5. P1 Es to F (D is my 1st string) P2 (stnd P5) P3
stnd P6) w/ stnd P7 on my RKL RKR 3rd C to B
LKL 4th to Bb, LKR 3 & 7 Cs to C# & LKV trying to learn that w/A 4th to Ab! I've used
this set up since about 1973 when I tried it on a S12. Jerry Gleason & Johnny Cox, I think
use P7 on RKL while Bob Mackiel, I think told me he had used P6 on a KL for a long time. It is cheating I suppose, but you don't need to use both feet that way to get the nicest C6th combination of all (5,6 &7)in
& out & all the different grips you can get w/them!

Joerg Hennig · Post by **Joerg Hennig** » 4 Feb 2002 11:07 am

I started w/an S-10, then moved to an S-12 about 6 months later, played Extended E9 for a while, at some time desired to learn the 6th tuning and changed it to a Universal. But I did not feel very comfortable with it for various reasons. I only really got into C6 after I got my D-10 and that´s where it´s at FOR ME; I just feel like I have finally found the right guitar FOR ME. It just feels natural. Don´t have no problem with "reaching" over for the front neck, either. Actually, my posture is better now since I avoid using the back neck as an armrest (on the ShoBud, that´s easy since the back neck is a good deal lower).
However, I still have my S-12 and sometimes, just for fun, I like to work out "alternative" tunings that could be put on it just to experiment. And that´s where "single neck C6" comes in. For example, I´m thinking about something like a C6 or B6 with added changes that duplicate the AB pedal change on E9, sort of a Sneaky Pete kind of thing. It could still be enhanced to some degree. A tuning like that, while maintaining the usual C6 changes, would allow you to get some "country" type sounds that are quite different from what we are used to hear. Of course, a tuning like that would make it hard to just copy other players´E9 licks but instead force you to work out your own thing.
Anyway, I don´t know yet if I will actually put it on... just some thoughts.

Joe H.[This message was edited by Joe Henry on 04 February 2002 at 11:08 AM.]

Gary Lee Gimble · Post by **Gary Lee Gimble** » 4 Feb 2002 12:00 pm

to sit down at the steel for a few minutes

Just who do you think you're kidding Jay. A few minutes my........how about an hour or so!

Gary Lee

B Bailey Brown · Post by **B Bailey Brown** » 4 Feb 2002 2:03 pm

After 22 years of playing a universal S-12…

Mike,

I think that is the key right there! If you have played a single neck guitar for that period of time I am not the least bit surprised you are “uncomfortable”. I would be too! I will tell you that I started playing a double neck guitar 30 years ago. Having said that, I will also tell you that the times I have sat down behind a single neck guitar, I DON’T feel right, or even like it. I guess I am just used to that “feel” a few inches above my hands that the bottom neck gives me. Why? Well, that just feels “right” to me.

Now, when I play the bottom neck, there is nothing under my arms, but again, that just feels “right”. I guess it is all in what you are used to. I will say that I have played some single neck guitars on a double frame, and they made me feel good.

B. Bailey Brown

Darvin Willhoite · Post by **Darvin Willhoite** » 4 Feb 2002 4:10 pm

I was the other way around, I played a D-10 first, then got a S-12. I never quite got used to the single even though I had it several years, so I sold it. Now it's all D-10's.

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Darvin Willhoite
Riva Ridge Recording

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 4 Feb 2002 4:32 pm

You get used to it if you keep at it.

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 4 Feb 2002 7:48 pm

Mike and Larry-You guys are both great players. You brought up some very good points for S12.

But when you said S12 C6, I wondered why you didn't say S12 E6. Same thing. Same pulls etc.

A lot of C6 12 string tunings now have the 1st string D and 2nd string B.

On E6 it is 1st string F# and 2nd string D#. Well what do you know, just like E9, Ext E9, or E9/B6. Same bar positions.Try it you'll like it.

Just put the A and B pedals on and same knee levers and you can play all night in one position with 5 or 6 knee levers and 6 pedals.

I believe that any players who has played a lot of E9(as most have) would be very comfortable and find it easy to play E6/E9.

Just my thinking on it. Read my "Lean and Mean" article in this months PSGA Newsletter......al

[This message was edited by Al Marcus on 04 February 2002 at 07:53 PM.]

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 5 Feb 2002 2:28 pm

Reachin' ain't no big thing, but playin' good is!

Gary Walker · Post by **Gary Walker** » 5 Feb 2002 10:55 pm

Mike, I guess it's what you get used to. I feel naked on a single neck. Having played D-11s and D-12s over the years, it just feels like home reaching across. I suppose if a fellow had a large bay window in front and short arms, it could be a chore but the last time I saw you at NAMM a few years ago, you didn't seem to have that problem, besides that, a double just looks more impressive. The first time I saw Reece in '68 and he came out with a single neck, I walked away looking at the displays. He had to crank it up to get my attention and he really did that. When I see a player come out with multi necks and jillion pedals, I figure if he can carry it, he can play it.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 6 Feb 2002 6:49 am

mike,
you can make two more universals out of that d-12.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 6 Feb 2002 10:42 am

As much as I experiment with different configurations, I keep going back to the S-12 E9th I've been playing for 23 years. I dabble in D-10, but it's never as comfortable as an S-12 to me.

I'm moving this topic to 'Pedal Steel' where it belongs.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic) Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)