Willie Nelson - Why no Steel Player in band?

[Mike McBride]

Has anyone ever heard why Willie neglects the pedal steel in his band for the last 50+ years? I'm not talking about the occasional use of one in recordings.

A harmonica is easier to haul and tune.

[Richard Sinkler]

Jimmy Day was in his band at one time.

[Andrew Frost]

Willie neglects the pedal steel in his band for the last 50+ years

hmm, you may be right...
That said, I've had to learn arrangements from live recordings of his that definitely had steel and were from recent decades...

[Doug Beaumier]

I too always wondered why Wille didn't have a pedal steel in his band for all those years. He certainly knew Buddy Emmons from his early days with Ray Price and the Cherokee Cowboys. He gave Buddy songwriting credit as co-writer of "Are You Sure". And Buddy played on Willie and Ray's 1980 album "San Antonio Rose". I've seen pictures of Buddy playing shows with Willie, on big stages and small. I can only assume that Willie wanted to separate himself from the traditional Nashville sound and cut his own path.

[John Larson]

Greg Leisz plays a real nice part on Willie's cover of Coldplay's "The Scientist"

IMO Willie thrives with a very stripped down sound, Just him, his guitar, and sparse instrumentation. I think he would definitely excel in the style that Eric Heywood achieves backing up singer songwriters like Jeffrey Foucault, Tift Merritt, Caitlin Canty, and Ray LaMontagne.

[Jerry Overstreet]

Does Willie even have a band anymore? I know he had the family band with sister Bobbie et al for years.

I've seem him do a few things with sons Lucas and Micah. I'd guess that's his band. The band is for the most portion Willie and Trigger in recent years.

Some tribute shows etc. have used Russ Pahl or Greg Leisz, maybe a few others, but those were put together things that I wouldn't call "his band".

[Ethan Shaw]

I've seen Willie quoted as saying that Jimmy Day was irreplaceable, so once he left, Willie never wanted another steeler in his band.

[scott murray]

that was my guess Ethan... to quote John Hartford: "once you've had the best, it's hard to settle for anything less"

we saw Willie last fall, the show was billed Willie Nelson & Family. his band included upright bass and spare drums with Mickey on harmonica and Waylon Payne on second acoustic guitar and vocals. Waylon sang lead on a few songs, he's the son of Willie's longtime guitarist Jody Payne

[Donny Hinson]

Willie was one of the old country artists (like Don Gibson, Johnny Cash, Rex Allen, Johnny Horton, Ernie Ford, Jimmy Dean, and a few others) that was just never known for that sound. Willie’s had over twenty #1 hits, but off the top of my head, none of them had any notable steel guitar. He did do at least one album with Jimmy, and another with John Hughey. But as I recall, none of the songs on them were big hits. His “Bloody Mary Morning” charted, and featured Hughey, but that was the only song I can think of that had some good steel work.

Country music is, and always has been, sprinkled with artists that just don’t care to be associated with that sound.

[Brett Day]

Willie was also friends with Shot Jackson, he got his Martin N-20 from Sho-Bud after his Baldwin guitar was stepped on while it was laying onstage. Willie had called Shot Jackson to see if he could repair the Baldwin, so after Shot Jackson found out the guitar was unplayable, Willie asked Shot what other guitars Shot had gotten in the shop, and Shot told him about a Martin N-20, so Willie told Shot to take the Baldwin pickup and put it in the N-20, and it gave Willie his signature sound. I know Weldon Myrick had played on "Me and Paul", a song released by Willie in the seventies. Paul in the song is Willie's drummer, Paul English. I've heard steel on Willie's version of "Crazy".

[scott murray]

Willie had a ton of steel on his records throughout the 60s and into the mid 70s, and plenty since then. everyone from Herb Remington, Buddy Emmons, Pete Drake, Weldon Myrick, Buddy Charleton, John Hughey and of course Jimmy Day graced his recordings. and like a lot of other singers he also recorded some "countrypolitan" type stuff in the 60s with more strings and voices, less fiddles and steel.

it just so happens Willie really hit the big-time around the time Jimmy Day left in the mid-70s, but the steel was falling out of favor with country and pop music in general around the same time.. after several years of being quite featured. Willie had very prominent steel on his Shotgun Willie ('73) and Phases&Stages ('74) albums. here's a few of my favorite Willie tracks with steel, and there's LOTS more to choose from:

Man With the Blues (Herb Remington) 1959

A Moment Isn't Very Long (Jimmy Day) 1961

Funny How Time Slips Away (Pete Drake) 1965

Making Believe (Buddy Charleton) 1965

Something To Think About (Buddy Emmons) 1966

Undo the Right (Weldon Myrick) 1971

Sister's Comin Home (John Hughey) 1973

I Gotta Get Drunk (Buddy Emmons) 1978

How Long Is Forever (Robby Turner) 2005

Take Me In Your Arms and Hold Me (Buddy Emmons) 2006

[Mike McBride]

Willie had a ton of steel on his records throughout the 60s and into the mid 70s, and plenty since then.

Scott - thanks for all the videos, I hope to view them soon.

I've been a Willie fan since 1976 and particularly like his albums of the 70's.

[Jerry Overstreet]

Oh yeah, how could I overlook Mickey Raphael's incessant honkin'.

BTW, on the live LP cut of I Gotta Get Drunk I have Jimmy Day.

[scott murray]

Willie cut some of his songs many times over the years, often in varying tempos and arrangements and obviously with different musicians.

the version of I Gotta Get Drunk posted above isn't live, it's a duet version with George Jones and most definitely Buddy Emmons on steel

[Gary Hoetker]

The original recording of “Let’s Pretend” had Jimmy Day all over it and is superb.

[scott murray]

good one Gary. Jimmy had such a distinct tone on some of that 60s stuff
Let's Pretend We're Strangers

compare to the version of A Moment Isn't Very Long above, or this one:
Undo the Right

and here's the live version of I Gotta Get Drunk that Jerry mentioned, released in '76 but recorded at Panther Hall in July 1966

[Donny Hinson]

Willie had a ton of steel on his records throughout the 60s and into the mid 70s, and plenty since then…

That may be true, Scott, but my point was that there was no steel on his #1 hits (23 of ‘em). Yeah, lots of steel on the obscure stuff, the filler songs and albums that never got lots of airplay. Maybe all those hits that did not have any steel became hits because there wasn’t any steel on them? Or maybe the labels only pushed the songs that didn’t have any steel? (It’s painfully obvious that Gnashville doesn’t go out of their way to feature pedal steel.) I don’t really know, but you’d certainly think that if he was really into the sound of steel guitar that it would have been more evident on some of his biggest hits, wouldn’t you?

I’ve also got a couple of his earliest albums (“Live at Cobo Hall”, and “My Own Peculiar Way”), and there was no steel on them. To be truthful, when he adopted the outlaw image, I lost interest in what he was doing. Maybe that’s why a lot of the minor albums and cuts that had some steel escaped me.

I think it’s safe to say that the general public doesn’t associate him with steel guitar; at least not like Connie Smith, Kitty Wells, Buck Owens, Ernest Tubb, and many others that had hits with great steel back in the day.

[Mike McBride]

I really like his album titled "Crazy: The Demo Sessions."

It has some raw toned steel work.

Willie has about 100 studio albums to his credit. This represents about 1000 songs I suppose. Most of the songs including steel were before the Red Headed Stranger album of 1975. That grand slam hit album probably reinforced his use of a band without a steel guitar.

[Chris Templeton]

Because his guitar, "Trigger" and his unique guitar style, he probably likes to keep his guitar playing front and center, and a steel might detract from his show.
Buddy told me that he and Willie were sitting at a booth at Tootsies and a guy sits down next to Buddy and Willie thinks Buddy knows him and Buddy thinks Willie knows him.
The guy keeps edging closer to Buddy on the seat and Buddy finally says to him, "are you about where you want to be?".
After the dust settled, Willie said to Buddy, something like," I'm going to use that line in a song and give you half".

"Are You Sure": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lARIX1EMbwA

[Doug Beaumier]

Country music is, and always has been, sprinkled with artists that just don’t care to be associated with that sound.

I agree, Donny. There are many examples of that in country music.

[Bob Shilling]

Chris, great story. In keeping with this thread, here's a version of "Are You Sure" with steel. I believe it's Pete Drake.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clNcINMiphQ

[scott murray]

how many #1 hits had memorable steel guitar in the same timeframe as Willie's (1975-1989)? he did record with steel several times in those 15 years and for the most part, I don't think he had a clue which songs might be hits.

steel guitar began falling out of favor in the mid/late 70s and the trend continued throughout the 80s and beyond... including many other artists who used steel on their earlier stuff. but I still believe it was Jimmy Day's irreplaceability that led Willie to use less steel... he didn't really follow industry trends by 1975. that was the whole point of the Outlaw movement (which ironically influenced trends itself)

I posted over a dozen songs with very prominent steel and could easily post several dozen more, an artist is more than the sum of their #1 hits

[Mike McBride]

I just met Robby Turner at Southern Illinois Steel Guitar show!

[Chris Templeton]

Bob, That's the best version I've heard. Willies off-beat rhythm he does 2/3 or so through is spectacular!

[Dave Mudgett]

On the OP's topic - um, it seems to me that Willie has done pretty well for himself following his own nose. I see no indication that he has any type of steel-phobia, and has used it plenty. But I have to ask if anybody really thinks he would have done better if he had just used more steel.

Regardless of how us steel guitar partisans feel about it, not every song needs or even wants steel, and lots of people out there in the mainstream have it seriously pigeonholed as that damned whiney cryin' in yer beer sound. And, sure, it woulda' been nice to hear some appropriate steel on, let's say, the Stardust album for example. But I can absolutely see why one might eschew that on an album full of tunes by the likes of Hoagy Carmichael, Irving Berlin, Kurt Weill, Jimmy McHugh, Duke Ellington, the Gershwins, and others that is intended for mainstream audiences.

There are artists out there who were pretty tied to a particular musician in their orbit. I heard Marty Stuart back after Gary Hogue passed away state that he didn't see how anybody could replace him. And I think it was quite a while before pedal steel reappeared in his lineup. Maybe that was true for Willie with Jimmy Day also, I dunno.

Not necessarily Willie, but I'll also say that I believe quite a few singers have a sense that steel both messes with their singing and can tend to steal the spotlight, owing to its extremely vocal qualities. Um, I think I've run into this at times. I try to stay the hell out of the way of singers. But I also know that, up North here anyway, steel is so rarely seen and heard on bandstands that some people really do go ga-ga when they see and hear it. I've had some pushback on that occasionally.