Playing with piano players

[Bill Duncan]

I play mostly Gospel music and have had the opportunity to play with some very talented piano players. The thing I have noticed about most of them is the self taught are almost always the best to play with. It is my experience that even many very talented piano players are rarely taught to play back-up or lead-swap. They usually tend to always bang out the lead and never use back-up rhythm or know to look for holes to insert runs or counter-point. Then there is the key thing. They always want to change keys to suit themselves and their playing because they have problems with certain keys.

I do like piano/keyboard though. But, their teachers are letting them down...I think.

[Robert Murphy]

Same here. Very talented but not for ensemble work. Since the piano is the king of instruments it can do it all, all the time. But the steel guitar can do that too so there's where the arrangement comes in. That's the next level if you will and it can work well but doesn't come naturally for the musicians.

[Charlie Hansen]

I was working on a session one time and had a piano player that played all over everything. I made him put one hand in his back pocket and play that way.

[Skip Edwards]

I think you guys have been playing with the wrong piano players...

[Frank Freniere]

I typically go to 1 or 2 open mics a week where the talent ranges from raw to remarkable. My take is that many piano players are used to doing it all (including vocals) and don’t want, or don’t know how, to share the music and the stage.

In other news, the piano has one place where you can get the 5th octave C note. By contrast, a 3x5 E9 pedal steel has 14 locations on just the top 5 strings where you can find that very note (e.g., 4th string, 8th fret).

[Michael Sawyer]

I have played in 3 groups with a keyboard player,since 2017.
I left one band because the lady piano player constantly played the " voicing"...
The 2nd band,the guy was ok,it just never got off the ground.
The 3rd,was pure enjoyment.
The old dude,Eddie Fairchild,(RIP)was one of the best musicians i have ever played with.
Stood at his keyboard,with a Strat hangin on his shoulder,and switched back and forth.
Always tasteful,played chords when he was supposed to,and smoked it when it was his turn.

[Bill Duncan]

I think you guys have been playing with the wrong piano players...

The piano/keyboard players in the club bands typically are better at back-up and rhythm.

[Gil James]

I play in church with two different piano players who alternate every Sunday. One, who can flat smoke the keys on any type of music is just like you described, no way to get a break or run in. Strictly just comping chords under her. The other, thank goodness, knows how to lay back and chord along to me on steel and our guitar player. I had to train (beg)her to do that though, she's my wife lol. Alot of your Red book Church pianist only know one way, to lead the singer.

[Bill Duncan]

I play in church with two different piano players who alternate every Sunday. One, who can flat smoke the keys on any type of music is just like you described, no way to get a break or run in. Strictly just comping chords under her. The other, thank goodness, knows how to lay back and chord along to me on steel and our guitar player. I had to train (beg)her to do that though, she's my wife lol. Alot of your Red book Church pianist only know one way, to lead the singer.

There is an evangelist who has family ties to our church and comes to visit a few times a year. He always plays the piano for all the music when there. He is an absolute joy to hear and play with. He naturally does intros, turn-arounds, rhythm, and lead swaps.

[Roger Crawford]

A band I used to play in hired a girl piano/fiddle player. Worst of both worlds!

[Donny Hinson]

Then there is the key thing. They always want to change keys to suit themselves and their playing because they have problems with certain keys.

Most key changes should never bother steel players, since all they usually have to do is move the bar up or down. But for piano players, the fingering changes for both hands, so it requires more thought and practice. And since the piano is probably the instrument that most often is played unaccompanied, they get in a rut (just like we do) and get lazy from always playing the same songs in the same keys.

I guess you could put it like this: If you can play a song only in certain keys, you may know the song, but you don't know your instrument.

[Herb Steiner]

I think you guys have been playing with the wrong piano players...

You got THAT right, brother!

[Jason Stillwell]

About a decade ago, I played steel at a run of performances for "Always, Patsy Cline." Our piano player had a reputation for being the best pianist in our part of the country. She was and is awesome at what she does. You can place a pile of sheet music in front of her, no matter how simple or complex, and she can play it note-for-note. HOWEVER, if you pull the sheet music... NOTHING. To her credit, she really learned to use her ears and listen to what was going on around her. Matter of fact, we all had a learning experience during that run.

[Dennis Detweiler]

I worked with a fiddle player a few times that could only play in G, A, E and D. Good in those keys but couldn't play at all in any other keys.
Then another fiddler that could play in any key, plus flats and sharps. He went on to play with George Jones and a few other Nashville acts. He was self-taught and gifted with perfect pitch. He passed away at 52 from life in the fast lane.

[Herb Steiner]

In any small combo, but a dance band especially, the pianist is part of the rhythm section primarily, along with bass and drums and, when necessary, rhythm guitar (hopefully acoustic, either flattop or archtop). Soloing should come after the chordal rhythm position is filled.

IOW, I see piano, being fixed-pitch, as the main chordal instrument that keeps everyone on the same page intonation-wise.

A pianist, as noted above, can be an incredible soloist but completely lost when his instrument's function changes from concertizing to accompanying.

[Floyd Lowery]

Every keyboard player I've ever played with knew how to play chords and backup except for one. I pulled him over on break and tried to explain it to him. He said he did not know how to play chords or backup. So, I asked him to sit on his hands until it was time for him to take a ride. However, he got fired before we went back from break. He got in a fight because some old man asked his girlfriend to dance.

[Herb Steiner]

Every keyboard player I've ever played with knew how to play chords and backup except for one. I pulled him over on break and tried to explain it to him. He said he did not know how to play chords or backup. So, I asked him to sit on his hands until it was time for him to take a ride. However, he got fired before we went back from break. He got in a fight because some old man asked his girlfriend to dance.

[Bill Duncan]

The absolute best piano player I ever played with was blind. He also played guitar and fiddle. On piano any key was fine. He never had a problem with the key. He was great with backing or whatever.

[Larry Bressington]

One of the things I respect the most in the fiddle arena, is the discipline to just stand there and hold the fiddle and not constantly saw, you see it many times so not to clutter the song, and step in when required. I have worked with tasteful piano players but I have had a good share of ground and pounders too, it would be nice to see a pianist just sit there and wait for ‘tinkle time’ once on awhile if they’re an undisciplined ground N pounder.

[Dennis Detweiler]

I saw a one-armed fiddle player perform.

[Tony Prior]

my take on this is Piano players have a left hand which compliments their right hand, but many times it can easily conflict with other instruments, especially Steel guitars and Bass.

Learning how to play an instrument has nothing to do with HOW to play with others in a band environment. This is not different for ANY Instrument.

Engineers learn how to build a Rocketship in school - but did they ever build one ? and even better, can they build one that works ?


Jeff Newman said it and it still stands the test of time.

NOW THAT YOU KNOW HOW TO PLAY YOUR ISNTRUMENT, LEARN WHAT TO PLAY AND WHEN NOT TO PLAY

While I appreciate fine Keyboard players, truth is, we don't play well in the sandbox together. My idea of a laid back OPEN rhythm is not banging left hand syncopated notes in time with the drummer. And yes apparently I have never played in a band with a keyboard player like John Hobbs !

[Peter Freiberger]

In addition to an overly busy right hand, when they should just be comping chords , it’s also a problem for bass players when piano players play a lot of left hand. Skip is great about establishing a logical pattern a bass player can follow. On his arrangements for Jay Dee at steel shows Skip often writes specific bass parts out, which makes it easy and provides a strong foundation for the soloists.

[Don R Brown]

Every keyboard player I've ever played with knew how to play chords and backup except for one. I pulled him over on break and tried to explain it to him. He said he did not know how to play chords or backup. So, I asked him to sit on his hands until it was time for him to take a ride. However, he got fired before we went back from break. He got in a fight because some old man asked his girlfriend to dance.

He should have sat on his hands.

[Mack Quinney]

Ok, being primarily a piano player and steel player second, (or third or fourth ) I need to speak up for my peeps!

1. Anybody can play all over the singer or others leads. I’ve played piano with steel and guitar players who didn’t know when to back off. This is not a “keyboard” player thing, it’s called being a musician thing. With country music it’s all about the singer. Musicians job is to support the singer period. This means don’t poop all over everything!
2. Playing in different keys on the piano is hard at best. As someone said, it’s all new fingering and really can test your mental capacity. We are products of what we learn and invest time in. Being I play with guitar players and male singers, the keys with sharps are the easiest. When playing with female singers you start adding flats, F, Bb, Eb are ok, beyond that I’m going to get coffee. Some piano players grew up playing in church. A bunch of hymns are in the flatted keys and those players are more comfortable in those keys.
3. In most music the piano is a rhythm instrument unless it’s by itself. (In fact it is classified as a percussion instrument), Just like steel, guitar, bassoon, playing rhythm is boring. I like to include extended chords and transition chord when playing. However the musical space can get crowded if there are a lot of instruments competing. Communication and trading between the instruments for those precious moments is key, and makes the music interesting to the listener.
4. Hell yes I can play a lead! Give me one every once in a while!

Ok I’ll get off my soapbox before I fall off. Please return to your 10 or 12 strings and pedals!

[Skip Edwards]

This is not a “keyboard” player thing, it’s called being a musician thing.

Well said, Mack.