Buddy Emmons - the 'Black Album'

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 29 Dec 2018 4:13 pm

I referred to this album in 'tablature' and happened to mention that I have the CD version.

I was contacted privately and asked if I could burn someone a copy. I'm hesitant to do this as, for all I know, this CD is available somewhere for sale and, if that's the case, I would never dream of doing such a thing.

Is it currently in print and available in CD form? I'm pretty sure I got my copy from Jim Aycoth at the Emmons Company back in the early-2000s - I just assumed it would be a perennial release, it being such an influential recording.

Does Jim Palenscar have them, for example?

And it raises another question: on the sleeve of the vinyl (and on the insert in my CD) there are two photos; one is the old Emmons Burlington facility and the other shows Buddy with Ron Elliot outside what appears to be a dealership of some sort. Where is this location? I'm assuming Nashville somewhere (it also has the Grammer Guitar logo displayed); maybe on Lower Broadway?

What was Ron Elliot's connection with the company? I should know this but, if I ever did, I've now forgotten.

Thanks in advance for any responses.

J R Rose · Post by **J R Rose** » 29 Dec 2018 6:23 pm

Roger, I brought the Black Album C.D. a few short years ago but can not remember where or when for sure. It would of had to of been e-bay, amazon or import cd's. I just cannot remember but I would guess that it is out there some where. And I do have an original Black LP from Emmons in the 60's. My guess is that Ron Elliott was just a friend and happened to be there at the right time. He played Sho-Bud & Sho-Bud Amps. Maybe Erv will see this and join in. I remember reading a post of his some time back about the store with Grammer Guitars. I have wondered about that picture myself. Glad you brought it up. Happy New Year Roger, J.R. Rose

scott murray · Post by **scott murray** » 29 Dec 2018 7:13 pm

hey Roger it was indeed on lower Broadway. the caption of the photo reads: Emmons National Sales Office - 427 Broadway - Nashville, TN

I doubt very much that the album is still in print, but I'm sure Ernie Renn and others know for sure.

looking at the record jacket now, I never noticed that Peggy took the iconic cover photo, certainly one of the most defining photos of Buddy.

I've always been so impressed by Bill Pursell's piano playing on the album as well. found this lovely sonata he wrote and performed in 1985: https://youtu.be/D_4P70_oy8o

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 29 Dec 2018 7:49 pm

Thanks, Scott. That detail is omitted on the CD sleeve.

I now discover that there was a three-page discussion on this subject right here on the Forum last January. I'm embarrassed to say that I participated and it had slipped my mind.

The main bone of contention seems to be the doubts surrounding the legal publisher of 'Nightlife'.

I recall Buddy mentioning Peggy's role in taking the photo.

Bill Cunningham · Post by **Bill Cunningham** » 29 Dec 2018 7:53 pm

Seems that Grammer/Emmons Nashville store was Little Roy Wiggins' store on Broadway but I could be wrong. I was there once as a teenager.

I had the LP and still have the jacket but somehow managed to lose the record. The only time in my life I can recall that happening! I believe I got my CD copy from ET Record Shop several years ago.

Kudos to you Roger for not copying this until confirming its availability. I do copy out of print stuff for people but don't copy boutique steel guitar CD's or similar small volume works. The market is tiny and if we don't support it, who will?

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 29 Dec 2018 10:14 pm

I used to sell the CDs and restock through the Emmons company, but after a few years they started ignoring my purchase orders. As far as I know, they were the only source. $:\$

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 30 Dec 2018 12:54 am

I recall that there were copies available for sale maybe a few years back but not in recent years, as Bob has stated. You can find them on Amazon or Ebay now and then but not for the typical 10 or $15 price tag. I still have the LP I bought way back then, I'm thinking I got it at the ET record shop on Broadway .

If my memory serves me Ron Jr didn't want to pay the royalties for the music ahead of the sales so he stopped printing the CD's. At least thats what the story was.

Slim Heilpern · Post by **Slim Heilpern** » 30 Dec 2018 7:28 am

I don't own a copy and I haven't heard it since the 70's. Every time I've tried to find a new or used copy on line the price has been too high to be reasonable.

So if anyone is thinking of making copies for a reasonable price, I'd love to be on the list.

What really surprises me is that it can't even be found on YouTube (at least last time I looked).

- Slim.

Jim Palenscar · Post by **Jim Palenscar** » 30 Dec 2018 8:09 am

I don't have them and don't know of anyone who does.

Dave Campbell · Post by **Dave Campbell** » 30 Dec 2018 8:16 am

i know i was confronted with this issue regarding charlie pride's in person. it isn't still in print, so i uploaded it to a dropbox folder, and i attached the link on the forum. i felt fine about it.

Pete Bailey · Post by **Pete Bailey** » 30 Dec 2018 9:34 am

Just another data point for you Roger : I've been looking for this album for almost a year and cannot find it to save my life except for highly priced individual LP's on ebay which I can't afford or even play anymore.

Libraries in my area don't have it either.

scott murray · Post by **scott murray** » 30 Dec 2018 9:35 am

some of the Black album is up on youtube, but it's frustrating that it can't be listened to or purchased easily online. it's arguably the greatest steel guitar album by the greatest player and it's basically unavailable. it just ain't right

consensus would seem to confirm that it's no longer in print and likely won't be anytime soon. I'm happy to provide a copy to anyone who might be looking. someone should just put the whole thing up on youtube as well

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 30 Dec 2018 9:52 am

It's beyond me from a technical standpoint and I hesitate to suggest that someone else does all the work.

However....

Would it be viable to somehow post a link to the soundfiles here on the Forum in such a way that they could be downloaded by any Forum member that wants a copy?

Maybe the same issues would prevail (publishing, for example) but there are a number of examples of long-deleted materials that are in demand. I'm thinking of the Panther Hall record and the soundtracks that accompanied Winnie Winston's book. The Pride record could be contentious, I suppose, but there are innumerable copies of Winnie's book without that floppy disc, I'm sure.

Perhaps a donation to the Forum in lieu of a direct payment?

J R Rose · Post by **J R Rose** » 30 Dec 2018 11:33 am

Roger & All, Just looked and Amazon has a used LP for only $125.00. A little pricey for a steel picker. J.R.

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 30 Dec 2018 11:48 am

That is a little steep, JR!

As strange as it seems to us that this album has been out of print for so long, it has to be remembered that a reissue wouldn't be a gilt-edged certainty in terms of sales. It's an important recording, there's no doubt, but I could foresee sales in the hundreds at the most.

If any steel guitar album ever achieved cult status it's this one, yet the market for it today might be smaller than we'd like to imagine.

I bought two steel LPs back then in '73 - one was the Black Album and the other was 'Diggin' Doug (Jernigan)'. To be honest they both made an equally big impression on me and it began to dawn on me what I'd taken on when I bought my first steel.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 30 Dec 2018 1:18 pm

Remember, it is still illegal to download copyrighted materials without paying for them. The artists, songwriters and publishing companies still have financial rights to that material. It is still illegal to make copies of your CD's etc. for others. I know it happens all the time, and I have been guilty of it myself. If it's on YouTube (probably not legally), you can probably download it (again, probably not legally).

I think it is a shame that things go out of print. But, as sales drop, it is not feasible to keep producing the product. But being out of print doesn't make it legal to share.

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 30 Dec 2018 1:20 pm

All true, Richard. I tend to think of this Forum as an insular little group of 'friends' but, of course, we shouldn't ignore the legalities.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 30 Dec 2018 1:33 pm

Roger Rettig wrote:All true, Richard. I tend to think of this Forum as an insular little group of 'friends' but, of course, we shouldn't ignore the legalities.

I like to share too. The problem I was pointing out was a warning against illegal posting to YouTube and others. They will get you if they catch you. They cancelled an account I had because of copyright infringement for posting videos/audio of bands I was in, doing covers. They have the ability to search for titles and figure out if it is a copyrighted song. If so, they pull it down and send you a message that you committed a copyright infringement 'crime'. There are some artists that monitor these sites for others posting their stuff.

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 30 Dec 2018 1:35 pm

Roger Rettig wrote:It's beyond me from a technical standpoint and I hesitate to suggest that someone else does all the work.

However....

Would it be viable to somehow post a link to the soundfiles here on the Forum in such a way that they could be downloaded by any Forum member that wants a copy?

...

Perhaps a donation to the Forum in lieu of a direct payment?

No. I don't want the liability or a donation associated with it. I suggest that if anyone wants to distribute them, they should do it via private email and/or snail mail. I know that some people mail CD copies to their friends. If you want to distribute that way, you could ask people to send you their address.

A donation to the forum for this is not appropriate.

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 30 Dec 2018 1:50 pm

That was a naive suggestion; I apologise.

Darrell Criswell · Post by **Darrell Criswell** » 30 Dec 2018 5:25 pm

Couldn't whoever owns the rights to the album be convinced to put this album and perhaps others of Emmons on iTunes for sale? I checked and several of Emmons albums are already there for sale.

Jack Strayhorn · Post by **Jack Strayhorn** » 30 Dec 2018 7:39 pm

Owned by Ron Lashley Jr. The Emmons publishing company was retained by the Lashley family, separate from the guitar company. When we released the album on CD in the mid 90's, Ron Sr voluntarily paid Buddy a royalty on the units ordered.

Dave Campbell · Post by **Dave Campbell** » 31 Dec 2018 3:04 am

there are many copyright exemptions when it comes to educational use of materials and the sharing and copying of them. i'm not a copyright lawyer and don't know the ins and outs, but from a moral standpoint of having players learn from buddy, i think you are pretty solid ground sharing it with folks.

Darrell Criswell · Post by **Darrell Criswell** » 31 Dec 2018 7:19 am

I worked in a University and have been in discussions with lawyers about use of copyrighted materials for educational purposes. There is the law and there is practice, everybody copies some limited amounts of copyrighted materials in education, it would be difficult to have good educational activities without that ability. But the lawyers will always stick to a line "that is the law" and you can't do it. Of course large scale copying is wrong but limited amounts are done by everybody. The real problem is when you sell the material. The true legal exemptions are pretty limited.

Gary Spaeth · Post by **Gary Spaeth** » 31 Dec 2018 7:43 am

i bought two copies of the black album so i have paid the royalties and should be entitled to any medium that i use it with. if someone should send me a cd copy i wouldn't feel the slightest bit of guilt over copyright infringement. if someone could show you a picture of them holding their copy then you theoretically could feel free to send them a copy.