The Lean and Mean "10 string Universal Tuning.

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 5 Sep 2001 8:21 pm

I have a a couple of request to post one of several All in one Universal tunings for 10 string and 12 string.

Here is one I call "The Lean and Mean" 10 string tuning that requires no lock, and it is all on One tuning. It is a combination E9, E6th, and E13th.

An E9 set of strings can be used. The 2nd string D# will be on the 4th string now as a C# but pulled up to a D# on a knee lever when needed.
<pre>
LL LV LR 1 2 3 4 5 RL RR
1..F#..........G
2. G#..................A.......A
3. E...F..........................F#..Eb
4. C#......D......................D#......D#
5. B...............C#......Bb
6. G#.........F#.......A.......G
7. F#..........................G
8. E...F..............................Eb
9. C#......D
10.B...............C#......Bb..A
</pre>
LL could be used as bowah without low note.
LL is your Standard F lever.
LV is like sacred tuning E7 also the D on 9th string.

P1 and P2 are your basic E9 pedals.
P3-4-5 are just like C6 ,5-6-7.
P5 used with P1 same chord as E9 P3.

RL is your standard Eb lowers same as E9.
RR very important, takes the place of your D#
2nd string on E9 AND gives a major 7th to be used with pedals 3 and 4 , leaves foot free
for the volume pedal most of the time.

You can put this on a S10 or on the C6 neck of a D10. Or even a S12, add G# on 11th string and E on the 12 string, almost like an EXtended E9.

This tuning is resembles in many ways the new
Sacred E7 tuning, and also the one that BE has been experimenting with on his Carter S12.

I use a S12 tuning like this with 3 more floor pedals.I use one to get the Jazz bottom. And the other two to get whole tone drop on string 5 and 6, the 3rd and 5th. I use this a lot with P3 and P4...al

[This message was edited by Al Marcus on 07 September 2001 at 05:36 PM.]

Paul Graupp · Post by **Paul Graupp** » 5 Sep 2001 9:49 pm

Al or anyone for that matter; has Johnny
Cox' E6th (if indeed it is that...) tuning on his 3-10 Zum ever been posted ?? He was on here for a while but then I guess he got busy playing. I think that would something unique to see as well. I keep hearing E6th so I'm starting to get more than just curious ! And on a D-12, I can see other possibilities coming to the surface.

Regards, Paul

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 5 Sep 2001 9:50 pm

So, it's E6th instead of C6th, right?

Kenny Forbess · Post by **Kenny Forbess** » 6 Sep 2001 10:30 am

Paul,
Johnny's center neck is an E-13th,
I have his copedent he sent to me in my computer, I'll figure out(maybe), how to put it on the forum if any one is interested.

------------------
kenny
66 Emmons 8&7
Derby D-10 9&8

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 6 Sep 2001 12:12 pm

Bobby-Yes it is E6. But it is also E9. It is also E13.

With the LV that pulls the C# to D.
A lot of E9 guys are lowering that 9 string D to C#. Why not get it out of the way and when you need it just push a lever.?

It has the E9 LL E to F lever, the E9 E to Eb lever, all the notes are exactly as E9 except the C# on the 4th string.

The RR knee gets the missing 2nd string D#. Just a little adjustment, of a few days, and you can play E9 Tab, and still play C6 tab, or lesson material. The best of both worlds.

The Old pros out there don't want this but the new young players should take a good hard look at this tuning. Just think add two pedals to your E9 tuning and you have nearly the same play as a D10.

This might be a good way to go if all you can afford is a S10, or that is all the weight you want to carry....FWIW....al

Paul Graupp · Post by **Paul Graupp** » 6 Sep 2001 12:34 pm

Kenny; I'm interested ! Been wondering about it since I heard about his new Zum but I didn't want to intrude on him.

Regards, Paul

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 7 Sep 2001 4:12 pm

I edited the original post.Added more to it...al

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 8 Sep 2001 7:32 am

Johnny is using an 11 string C6 with a D in the middle on the back neck. The other necks are 10 string with the E9 in the front I believe. He uses the E13 the most on the Time Jumpers gig. I think he's using a single 10 E9 on the Opry.

Jerry Hayes R.I.P. · Post by **Jerry Hayes R.I.P.** » 12 Sep 2001 3:57 am

Hey Al,
Very interesting tuning! Keep up the good work.

------------------
Have a good 'un! JH U-12

[This message was edited by Jerry Hayes on 12 September 2001 at 04:59 AM.]

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 12 Sep 2001 8:26 am

Thanks, Jerry for anylizing the tuning. I will post a 12 string tuning which has E9-E13-E6 and Sacred tuning E7 in it, in a couple of days.....al ....

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 12 Sep 2001 8:57 am

Now I get it! Thanks, Al.

chas smith R.I.P. · Post by **chas smith R.I.P.** » 12 Sep 2001 11:33 am

Al, thank you, this one is worth a close look. For myself, I'd rearrange the ordering a bit, but this one looks really good.

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 17 May 2003 10:17 am

I have had a few inquires about a S10 -E6/E9 Universal tuning that I posted here a couple of years ago. So I thought I would bump it up so the new guys with S10's could see it.

This is a very potent tuning to play E9 with and still stay in E to play the 6th stuff.

If you went to 12 strings, you could put a E on the bottom or if you play jazz, put an A on the bottom.

You could also stick the D# back there on the 2nd string.

However, fwiw, I have found it easy to use the knee lever C# to D# instead of the usual 2nd string ....al

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 17 May 2003 1:35 pm

Interesting Al, but I went to 12 strings to get the low G# and E. I couldn't live without them now. With a U12 I get that, plus all the essentials of B6/C6, plus if you use the B pedal in B6 mode you get a B7 neck, which is very similar to the Sacred Steel neck and great for blues and rock. I've got enough to keep me learning the rest of my life.

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 18 May 2003 10:05 am

David-Notice my tuning is written for 10 strings, for players who have a S10 or D10..

I agree with you, on my 12 string tuning. I do put the G# on the 11th string and the E on the 12 string. You are right about that, those are important additions....al

Wayne Cox · Post by **Wayne Cox** » 18 May 2003 8:53 pm

AL, it's obvious that you have put some serious thought into this setup,but I do have a couple of questions. First,I realize that many players are content with the limited pitch range of standard E9 (G#-B),and your E6 universal covers that same range,but doesn't it seem that a "Universal" tuning should at least have the same range of pitch variation as a six-string standard guitar? You know,at least from little E to big E ?!! If I were adapting your setup to my own needs, I would place a B in place of string 9 and then put either an E or a G# in the 10th string position. I would still raise 9 to a D or lower 8 to a D. Do you feel that this would foul up any of your basic chord structures?
~~W.C.~~

Wayne Cox · Post by **Wayne Cox** » 18 May 2003 9:15 pm

Incidentally,I should add that I am currently using a hybrid E6 tuning on my back neck. I have always liked E6 but I recently got inspired by the "Sacred Steelers" concept. I just didn't want to tune to E7 as a basic tuning,yet I love the sound of the doubled E's in the middle. Anyway,I devised a E6th style tuning. I don't know how to post the full setup, here, but my open-string tuning is as follows:High to Low.F#,E,C#,B,G#,E,E,C#,A,E. I have been pleasantly surprised with the results. It really has a unique sound I had previously heard,only in my mind. It probably sounds similar to Dan Tyack's tuning except that the chord structures are more C6 oriented.
If I could add one more string,it would be an Eb on the high end.
~~W.C.~~

ebb · Post by **ebb** » 19 May 2003 3:17 pm

what's the purpose of the double e. are they the same octave

Wayne Cox · Post by **Wayne Cox** » 20 May 2003 5:03 am

The doubled E's are in unison (in the same octave),or in other words,they are tuned to the same pitch. You probably know how difficult it is to describe a sound verbally or in writing,but I'll try. Most musicians know what a standard acoustic guitar sounds like,and many know what a standard acoustic 12-string guitar sounds like. The 12-string acoustic has a unique full,rich sound that is very dificult to emulate on an acoustic 6-string model. That's what the doubled E's do for the steel guitar tuning. Then,lest the extra E get in the way when running scales,I raise one of the doubled E's to F# with a knee lever. This becomes like string 6 on a standard E9 tuning (great for scales or for dominant & major 9th chords). If you go to b0b's home page and select "Steel guitar tunings",then look at the "Sacred Steel" tunings,you will see that this is not a new idea. Also, you will find that b0b explains the concept quite well;probably better than I can. My tuning is,hopefully,another step along the evolutionary chain. Check out Dan Tyacks home page and tuning chart. Dan went a slightly different route. Dan uses a doubled E tuning with emphasis on E9 phrasing,whereas my emphasis is on C6/E6.
hope this helps more than it confuses. If anyone is sincerely interested in my tuning,we an start a separate thread. I don't want to get on a tangent that could take away from AL's thread.
~~W.C.~~ [This message was edited by Wayne Cox on 20 May 2003 at 12:49 PM.]

Ulf Edlund · Post by **Ulf Edlund** » 21 May 2003 9:28 am

Jan Visser in the Netherlands has specialized in the 10-string universal tuning. Read all about it at www.pedalprouniversal.com
Go to the "site directory" at the left, then scroll down to "Info on UPSG - DeVis."
There is an article about his special tuning (currently played by 22 people), setup diagrams, pictures of the DeVis steel guitars etc.
On the same website there are interviews with Tom Brumley, Scotty, Buddy Charleton and others. There is also an extensive interview with Jan Visser himself.
On june 15 Jan is even doing a workshop on 10-string universal tuning.

Check it out.
Uffe
[This message was edited by Ulf Edlund on 21 May 2003 at 10:31 AM.]

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 21 May 2003 10:34 am

Everyone should check out Al's new web site (it has it's own topic line right now). He has photos and discussions of all his experience playing pedal steel starting in the '40s with big band jazz and pop and then playing country in the '60s and '70s. He also gives the copedents and discussions on his universal E6 tunings for 10 and 12 string pedal steels. Great web site Al, and what a life!