Vista - Realtek - God, What's Going On With This?

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 3 Oct 2008 5:32 pm

Well...after finally accepting the fact that I own a pc with Vista and all of it's implications; not through any choice of my own...

I am stuck with it!

If you aren't running Vista, then this topic is not for you.

It seems that almost every week there is an audiocard Vista Realtek update. It's really getting to be a nuisance. But Wiz, and Chris, who is the owner and creator of GOLDWAVE, say that, if you do have Realtek, you have to keep up with the updates.

I've been doing the updates ever since I heard about this.

But guess what? Nothing seems to benefit my sound; but I have to go into, like, ENHANCEMENTS, and reconfigure all my settings.

HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????????????????

Any other suckers out there experiencing this?

PS - I've been lagging. Today I updated to R204, and just for laughs (ha-ha) I went back out to Realteks website, and there it was - update R205. (Had R204 downloaded to the desktop and just sitting there for a few days.)

Unless someone can actually explain what's going on here, then Realtek is a bunch of hogwash! Why all these constant updates? What a screwy system. I'm so glad I have it on my PC! Oh yeah, babe. BAM!!!

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 4 Oct 2008 2:21 am

As the Realtek audio is used on many motherboards and by many vendors there can be many updates. However,the "latest and greatest" may not apply to your particular situation. You need to look at what the update does or fixes to determine if it affects your specific situation. e.g. an update may be to fix an incompatiblity when used with an ASUS motherboard and if you don't have that motherboard the update will not do anything for you. I see this on many updates, from SoundBlaster, from Video card vendors, software application companies, etc.

The old "if it aint broke don't fix it" really applies to many updates. The Microsoft updates are an exception as most of them are security related in one way or another.

In Dell's you can't use the Retail sound vendor updates (e.g. RealTek, SigmaTel (which is now IDT)). You must use the Dell supplied drivers and updates because of Dell's custom implementation. Dell is a good example of very few updates as they only put out an update, in most cases, only if the device is not performing to published Dell specs. There is no incompatiblity with programs (including Goldwave) by not frequently updating their drivers, since their drivers are specifically for their implementation.

In general we get caught up in the must always update syndrome.

Don Sulesky · Post by **Don Sulesky** » 4 Oct 2008 4:07 am

I bought a new HP Pavilion 3 weeks ago and as yet have got no messages to update my RealTek.
I have gotten a couple HP and Microsoft updates though.
I had RealTek in my 6 year old HP Pavilion and never got any messages for updates.
So I am confused why you should be getting them.
Don

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 4 Oct 2008 5:49 am

Don,

All this updating with Realtek started when I tried to use GOLDWAVE, on the new Vista OS, to record "What You Hear".

When I opened up the volume sector of Goldwave where 'what you hear' is located, it was all gone. Nothing in there. No options. Gone.

So I contacted Chris from Goldwave, and he said Realtek is peculiar and that you have to keep on top of their updates. What he actually was telling me, I think, was that he hasn't upgraded to Vista, yet, and is trying to fudge the fact by putting the blame on Realtek. I don't know.

Realtek does not alert you. You have to be vigilant on this. You have to go to their various websites and download the latest updates. Realtek doesn't even have a help forum or support, and never answered any of my email inquiries. Not a real good audio program, IMHO.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 4 Oct 2008 6:20 am

The "What you Hear" (System Mixer)is an issue on almost all new RealTek and SigmaTel/IDT sound systems. Some can be activated and some cannot. It isn't a problem with Goldwave (and Goldwave is Vista compatible) - it's a problem with any program that you want to use to record streaming audio - if you were using Audacity, for example, you would encounter the exact same problem.

The Dell's cannot do it. A Dell person told me it's because of the different way Vista handles that function compared to older Operating Systems and Dell has never updated their drivers to accomodate that (they are many angry Dell users that post on the Dell users forum because of this). Many Dell users have opted to buy a PCI SoundBlaster sound card just so they have the What You Hear option.

On SOME systems the What You Hear is not enabled as they come from the factory but you can activate it by going to the Control Panel/Sounds and then the Recording tab section. RIGHT click in an empty area in the Panel and sometimes there will be a disabled item option. Click on the disabled items and if you are lucky one of the options will be the What You Hear/System Mixer. Don was able to do that on his new HP with RealTek.

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 4 Oct 2008 10:28 am

Well, in 'sounds' I right clicked in an open area and 2 options were listed; 'show disabled devices' and 'show disconnected devices'. Disconnected devices were already checked off and disabled devices was not - so I checked it off. Nothing appeared.

Under sounds are listed: Speakers (2-USB Audio Device - Working); Digital Output Device [HDMI] (High Definition Audio Device - Working); Speakers (Realtek High Definition Audio - Working); and Realtek Digital Output (Realtek High Definition Audio - working)

The one I'm using and is checked off is Speakers - Realtek High Defintion Audio.
Kind of confusing, eh?

In Goldwave under Control Properties/Volume there is absolutely nothing listed, even when you click on the 'volume device' menu arrow.

I even bought Freecorder, but it doesn't work so hot. Maybe I hafta to reload it. All this stuff is exhausting and saps the whole fun of trying to do anything.

Don Sulesky · Post by **Don Sulesky** » 4 Oct 2008 10:33 am

Chip
Here is what I did. It's a Vista problem.
Open your Control Panel.
Open Hardware and Sound.
Click on "Manage Audio Devices"
Click on Recording.
Then click on the devices you want.
Line In.
Stereo Mix. It should then read "working."
And Mic if you use one.
It will say not plugged in or not working.
If you use "lines in" then it will say plugged in.
This worked for me.
I can record from the net and also record songs I have in my music file now into Goldwave and edit them.
Don

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 4 Oct 2008 11:01 am

Chip, did you click on the Recording tab? and then Right click in an empty area in the recording panel.

It sounds like you just went to the Sounds panel and the first panel that comes up, the playback panel.

Don Sulesky · Post by **Don Sulesky** » 4 Oct 2008 11:47 am

Chip
My instructions are what worked for my HP Pavilion with Vista.
When I clicked on Recording my plug in menu was there for the Stereo mix etc.
If you have another brand the Control Panel Folders may use different names.
My wife's Compaq uses different names but the Folders contain the same items.
Don

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 4 Oct 2008 12:38 pm

Thanks Don for that info. I'll give it a try.

Jack, yup, you called that right. I clicked on PLAYBACK only. I now right clicked in RECORDING and the same 2 options (disable & disconnected) were checked off.

There are 5 things listed: Lexicon Lambda In/Out; Microphone; Aux; Line In; and Stereo Mix. Stereo mix was disabled, so I enabled it. Line In says it's not plugged in and the other 3 devices are 'working'.

The one being used with a green check next to it is AUX.

Don Sulesky · Post by **Don Sulesky** » 4 Oct 2008 12:51 pm

Chip
The line in will say unplugged until you plug a line in from say a recording device or other unit into the input of your computer.
Don

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 4 Oct 2008 1:06 pm

I guess I did what Don suggested. I only have SOUNDS in Control panel; not Hardware and Sounds.

I right clicked on the orange Realtek speaker in the taskbar, and it brought up Sound Manager.

Still no "What You Hear" device. Maybe I need to update Goldwave. That's where 'what you hear' was located. But then again Chris from GW knows about Realtek and admits that all those functions that were available in GW when I was using SoundBlaster are not available with Realtek. I just don't get it.

Both SB cards I had never worked just right in Vista, even with their Vista update drivers. So I heaved them. The more I tried to get them to work properly, the more annoyed I got.

Don Sulesky · Post by **Don Sulesky** » 4 Oct 2008 1:19 pm

Chip
There is no need to go to the task bar.
Open your control panel.
If all you have is "sound" that's fine.
You might have three options like I do Adjust, Change or Manage your sound.
You can click on either Change or Manage your sound and the next window should have a recording option.
Click on it then click on the stereo mix so it says working.
That's all there is to it.
Don

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 4 Oct 2008 3:12 pm

Goldwave has nothing to do with the sound device (Realtek in your case)operation. Goldwave does not have the what you hear - that is a function of your sound device. Goldwave, Audacity or whatever recording program you have only USES it as one option when recording (other options would be the line in or mic).

Get away from Goldwave, it has nothing to do with the What You Hear issue. Concentrate or getting the What You Hear (System Mixer) function working in your sound device, if it has that capability. If it does not have that capability you will have to install a sound card that is Vista compatible that does have that function. I know you didn't have any luck before installing a sound card (we didn't have any better luck trying to assist you) and if that sound card is Vista compatible and has the What You Hear function, I would suggest taking the PC and the sound card to a PC repair tech and have it installed.

If you don't have a PCI sound card anymore, I know a SoundBlaster Audigy SE sound card ($30 at Wal-Mart) is Vista compatible and DOES have the What You Hear function (I have one installed in my Dell desktop that has Vista Home Premium).

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 5 Oct 2008 7:44 am

Jack,

Does that $30 SB SE soundcard also have the older 6-bar MIXER such as the one in AudigyII?

I know you think a lot of this is my doing, but SB support told me that of all the updates for Vista for the AudigyIIValue card the Surround Mixer was not available. The 'environment' sector didn't work well, and seemed to have lost half of it's list of options.

For $30, I'll go right up to the local Wal-Mart today, and get it.

Don, I did find the RECORDING page and Stereo Mix is now enabled.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 5 Oct 2008 9:48 am

Chip, I don't remember what all is in the SB SE. My Dell is not turned on and I need to do the "3S's" as I have a Sunday evening gig. I'll check on it tomorrow and answer your question.

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 5 Oct 2008 9:52 am

Thanks again Jack and Don.

Jack, I already checked the "SE" out on Wal-Mart's site, they had 3 at the store near me, and I'm sitting with one right now.

Does it hurt to install ALL options? What I mean is, will SB "act" better if all components are installed, instead of doing a 'custom' install?

Surround Mixer is included.

Play well on your gig.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 5 Oct 2008 7:07 pm

Install ALL the provided SoundBlaster software and applications.

1. Disable the integrated audio in the BIOS (setup).
2. Power off the PC and install the SB card.
3. Power on the PC and let it boot up, however when Windows (Vista) starts it will come up with a windows about searching for drivers. DO NOT allow Windows to search - actually cancel that function out.
4. After Vista completes startup, load the SoundBlaster CD and install the drivers and applications software (install everything).

There will probably be updated drivers and maybe some updated applicatons software on the SoundBlaster site but wait until you checkout the new card and make sure everything is working first.

The SoundBlaster sound card also has "hardware" MIDI Synths on the card "Synth A" and "Synth B" and these are much better than the Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth that is built into Windows/Vista. If you do anything that requires MIDI use the SoundBlaster MIDI Synth "A" (it sounds a little better than the B Synth).

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 6 Oct 2008 2:46 am

Well Jack,

I got problems, again. First off, I looked all over my BIOS back when I was having problems with AudigyIIValue and SBX-fi Extreme Music. I could not find anywhere to uninstall Realtek.

So this time I disabled it in Device Manager, just as before.

SE installed, but no sound came out. SE is not even listed in Device Manager\Sounds & Controllers.

Also, some version of X-fi got installed, too, from the SE CD; along with it's own drop down menu. What's with this?

I'm gonna re-check the BIOS, and see if there's something that says disable/uninstall Realtek; but I doubt I'll find it.

As I was installing SE, I had a premonition that this brand new version, too, was gonna not go well.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 6 Oct 2008 4:25 am

Chip, the best advice I can give you is to take it to a PC shop and have them install it properly or a PC tech that will come to your house and do it.

I'm not trying to just blow you off and not help anymore, just that you need to have a qualified PC tech do that for you. Remote "help desk" support isn't going to get it.

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 6 Oct 2008 9:28 am

I think you're right, Jack. Pay the guy what he wants, be done with it, and save myself many hours of aggravation.

Thanks again for your input. I never thought you'd blow me off. When it comes to the BIOS on this ACER PC, it's not very user friendly (at least for me, it's not).

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 6 Oct 2008 9:55 am

I just checked Windows Vista Update, and there is a Creative driver update for SB Audigy.

I have the PC setup for auto update, but for some reason, the 'auto' did not take place.

In the meantime maybe I'll uninstall SB, get hold of ACER to see how to remove Realtek, the proper way, and start over (with the updated driver).

On the SB box, it says it is Vista compatible, but in an email link that Creative Support sent me about this problem, it mentions to not use the CD ROM if it doesn't specifically say VISTA on the label. Well, the CD doesn't show any OSs. It doesn't even say AudigySE. It just says Audigy.

The link also mentions to check for the latest Vista updates, and that's when I clicked on Windows Update and lo and behold, there was the Creative update.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 6 Oct 2008 3:30 pm

Get the latest driver direct from soundblaster, don't download the Microsoft (Vista) updates as usually the Microsoft update is not the latest version. Drivers that are sent to Microsoft have to go through the Microsoft "validation" process which can take many months and the reason they are usually not the "latest and greatest" version.

The Soundblaster people are correct if the install CD does not say Vista on it. The reason being depending on when the one you bought was packaged it could only have Windows XP drivers.

HERE is the latest Vista drivers from the SoundBlaster site.

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 6 Oct 2008 4:16 pm

Thanks Jack. I'll be getting around to this. What've I got lose; it ain't over yet.

Wiz Feinberg · Post by **Wiz Feinberg** » 7 Oct 2008 9:08 am

Chip;
When you first start your computer and you see the first page of white text, hit the pause key. Look for the details about the BIOS and write them down. This will allow us to lookup the typical options available from the manufacturer of that BIOS. However, each OEM has the motherboard components customized for their brands and product lines. It could be that your BIOS doesn't provide a means to disable the onboard audio device.

If the BIOS can't disable the Realtek audio device you must do so in Windows Device Manager, as you already have mentioned doing. Afterward, try using Device Manager to enable the use of the SoundBlaster card, if it is detected and listed. If it is not even detected by the OS, it might be due to a bad card, or bad contacts in the PCI slots. Change it to another slot if you can.

If the OS will not even detect the presence of the SB card, assume that it or the PCI sockets are bad. It would be easier to return the SoundBlaster than the computer. Try a different card of the same make, from a different store. Ya never know!

Finally, see if you can get a computer shop to check the PCI slots for functionality. They could plug in a network card, or a modem, or sound card and sere if it is detected. If so, you got a bad card. If not, you have a defective PCI socket set and the computer, or its motherboard needs to go back to Acer.