Another Complaint

Rick Collins · Post by **Rick Collins** » 29 Sep 2002 2:24 pm

I know what grog is;___gog?????????????????

Rick Collins · Post by **Rick Collins** » 29 Sep 2002 2:25 pm

...must just be bad rum.

Jim Bob Sedgwick · Post by **Jim Bob Sedgwick** » 29 Sep 2002 3:07 pm

Hey Mike, I have the same gear as you. Mine doesn't sound like an Emmons, does yours?

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 29 Sep 2002 3:07 pm

Friends of mine have left the Forum over frustration with the posts of other forumites they disagree with and can no longer tolerate. I personally wouldn't choose that course of action. Doing so gives too much power over my life to someone I simply disagree with.

I don't believe anyone has ever been stopped from voicing an opinion here, except on the rare occasion when that opinion is a personal attack that got out of hand or over the top. b0b of course has the right to stop that sort of thread but I feel he's been really lenient in allowing all sorts of *stuff* to be voiced here.

Having said that, if someone voices their opinion on a public forum, he or she should expect rebuttal and perhaps debate. If the position can't be backed up with quantitative fact, and general consensus of the readers/posters is that the original position is wrong, misguided, ill-informed, silly, etc., etc... hey, no one guaranteed that he or she won't be taken to task by those with other opinions and as much, or more, experience on the topic. And it would be disengenuous to claim that because he or she lost the debate, they were somehow "not allowed" to state their opinion.

I want to know the opinions of other Forumites, the shoot-from-the-hip idiotic opinions as well as the carefully thought-out opinions. Opinions are a part of the autobiography of the writer. Through these opinions I've made efforts to meet folks at steel shows whose company I've greatly enjoyed and made great friendships. I've also noted certain guys whom I really don't care to meet at all.

As with Rick GM, I too enjoy standing by the sidelines and seeing the occasional scrape. It does keep things from getting boring, which is the main reason why I audit the *other* forum. The wheat to chaff (usefull info to stupidity) ratio there, IN MY HUMBLE OPINION

, is painfully low, but boy do they say some... um... *interesting* things! And Bobbe must dig it immensely. The other day, he personally was the topic of the top 5 threads!

------------------
Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Gary Lee Gimble · Post by **Gary Lee Gimble** » 29 Sep 2002 4:04 pm

I would have to add that if a reputable, household name steeler is critiquing another musician, then some merit should be considered. Most likely, we won't ever find an established steeler publicly talking down on another musician simply because it is not right. And nothing is gained by insulting someone's talents or lack there of. So, what is left over is mostly what you see here. Now, lets add to the "occasional scrape" and allow me to be somewhat of a hypocrite. I would like Marty to acknowledge if my memory serves me correct. A year or so ago you had a web site with an abundance of sound bites categorized by years, with you on steel and I believe banjo. If this is in fact true, then lets "consider the source" as Johan states, and hear some input on Marty's musical expertise, as long as your web site is still up!

BTW Herb, tonight's taste is Germain Anne Domini 2000. Only 1200 bottles are, were available that year. I'm enjoying bottle # 1129, a quintessential premium domestic brandy.

Gary Lee Gimble

Marty Pollard · Post by **Marty Pollard** » 29 Sep 2002 5:19 pm

your post makes me think,why do I try to play the steel for.

First Joe, I'd like to draw a distinction between what we do at the local VFW and what we do on national media.

I remember joining the TSGA in the mid/late '70s and attending meetings to hear Reece and Junior play but being far too scared to play in front of them.
I was in awe of these guys.

Not so anymore; about the only guy who truly amazes me is Lloyd Green. In all honesty, I didn't know if he would be as good as he was. No, he's light years BETTER than he was!

Milo Deering's playing seems to be a distant second and D. Travis Toy is my latest 'discovery'. Both MONSTER instrumentalists. Why they aren't raved about on here everyday, I can't imagine.

So anyway Joe, I take the player and the playing in context. I used to sTINk really bad, then I started to sTINk a little less on average. I'm nowhere near as accomplished as Milo or D., at least certainly not within their idiosyncratic playing styles. If I hear a player in the VFW, I judge them more leniently than I would if they played on Good Morning America. So please don't let my opinion discourage YOU in any way. I'm glad you love what you do and that's the most important thing in the context in which you find yourself.

I can see and well understand the dilemma being cussed and discussed here. On the one hand, who the hell am I (or any of us, really) to disparage the playing of another. On the other, being critical and discriminating is what we (all of us!) do. Some of us speak it and most don't; fine.
It's been said many times over that putting yourself in the public spotlight gives the observer carte blanche to opine whatever he desires.

I'm gratified to see so many free-thinkers who realize what the result would be if there were no opinions posted here. No matter how ill-informed, bone-headed, misguided, s**t for brains, my opinion may or may not be, we get a chance to discuss issues related to steel (but mostly lately just freedom of speech). And don't forget, those of you who put me down for expressing my opinion are expressing your opinion.

Finally, could I have done better?
You bet yer sweet bippy!
Yes Gary, my website is still up.
Kinda crippled and not updated but still there. I don't have the link committed to memory (the ISP changed it) but it's on b0b's Links page.
And let me make my excuses now; I know there's a lot of junk there, I'm VERY critical of myself. Most of the studio stuff is rough takes that made it onto cassettes. Ironically, the work I'm most proud of is of the most inferior recording quality.
On the Brian E. link, I sat in the kitchen with a cassette player playing some originals and I recorded WITH the cassette onto my laptop with no wires. But the playing is there; I did this stuff on the fly and that's how I've been trained to play; on the fly. That's where I'm at my best; I'm a damn good sideman and I prove everytime I play with a group. Are my chops all they could be? NO! Do I get tired of hearing the same uninspired licks? YES! But when I'm on, I'm REALLY on.

And just like you Joe, I enjoy it.

Wayne Cox · Post by **Wayne Cox** » 29 Sep 2002 5:20 pm

Some folks just enjoy stirring the pot,more than eating the soup; right,Marty?
W.C.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 29 Sep 2002 5:23 pm

Jim Bob, my piece of wood doesn't sound like an Emmons either. but I wish I could make it sound the way yours does when you play.

Lee, after looking at the GOG web site I realise I had it confused with 2 other movies. The teens who listened to Pat Boone were the heros of "Invasion of the Saucer Men" and the cardboard monster was "Zontar, The Thing From Venus."

Zontar also didn't play the steel.

------------------
My gear: a piece of wood with some wires attached to it.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 29 Sep 2002 7:03 pm

The main thing that strikes me about this topic is that it's about nothing. Marty didn't say who the singer was or who the steel player was. Why post at all?

If it was indeed David Philips (a Forum member and friend of mine), then I must speak up in his defense. David is a great steel player and a brilliant musical theorist. If he was playing triads on TV, it was because the song called for triads, not because he can't play more advanced stuff.

If ALL you can play are major and minor triads ... stay the hell off the stage; ESPECIALLY nationwide broadcasts!!!

It's never stopped bluegrass players.

------------------
<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic), Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6), Roland Handsonic[This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 29 September 2002 at 08:08 PM.]

Bob Carlson · Post by **Bob Carlson** » 29 Sep 2002 8:06 pm

Darn Marty,
I don't recall you ever being so upset bout anything. But I reckon in time you'll get over it. Hope so anyway, too much of that is bad for the heart.

Bob.

Glenn Austin · Post by **Glenn Austin** » 29 Sep 2002 8:37 pm

If you're going to allow free thinkin, then you have to allow free stinkin

Marty Pollard · Post by **Marty Pollard** » 29 Sep 2002 9:16 pm

Glenn, you make a beautiful point! I do plenty of both.

Johan, you posted gibberish. I think I know what you were trying to say, though you said it as Bill Hankey might have said it.

And b0b, I looked at the original post and I afraid I agree with you.

It's pretty much about nothing. So...
Yes, it was Frank Black and I've not heard such tripe in recent memory (although I can, indeed, see the Nirvana connection). Absolutely TERRIBLE song! WORTHLESS!
And yes, it was Dave Phillips playing steel and if he's a good player then he's an even better impressionist!

There made me say it! Happy?
BTW, low blow about the bluegrassers (but kinda true).

Ian Finlay · Post by **Ian Finlay** » 30 Sep 2002 12:29 am

My .02 Euros worth:

1. Being on TV...
I've performed on UK regional and national TV a few times. It's HARD. For those of you that don't know, you wait around for hours on end, covered in foul-feeling TV make-up, then have to go a perform 130% to make 90% come over on camera. Ususally monitoring is poor to non-existent, and remember, you're going on cold and have 1 or maybe 2 numbers to hit your peak performance. I for one (playing guitar and singing) tend to play safe. I keep the flash to a minimum - TV is NOT the place for me to take chances.

2. Playing triads
Freddie Green, for my money one of the best rhythm guitar players ever, played triads almost exclusively. All those blues and rock 'n' roll players played mainly triads or less (Chuck Berry anyone?). One note in the right place is worth 1000 times 10 notes where they're not needed.

Oh - and I've lurked here long enough to figure out that the forum is NOT the place for an internet style slagging off, name calling flame fest. Constructive criticism, fine, but "so-and-so sucks" - we can do better, right?

Ian

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 30 Sep 2002 4:49 am

Yes Ian,we can do better than that
Glenn A got it right tho'
Civilisation >> Ho'

Mark Durante · Post by **Mark Durante** » 30 Sep 2002 5:45 am

Marty,
I didn't see the show and if I had I might agree with you, but if you were asked to do that show would you decline saying, "I'm not as good as Lloyd Green"?

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 30 Sep 2002 5:58 am

I have e mailed Marty..I feel bad that this
happened,,Marty is a colorful kind of guy and
sometimes outspoken. But he says what he feels and holds nothing back. I admire people
like that even though Martys orginal post upset me with regard to critising someone as
he did.

Marty magnified my being upset over the comment of "sucks sucks sucks", I just didnt think it was appropriate. Im not opposed at what he said..it was why he said it.?

I have always made positive comments about people on this Forum,,I have NEVER put anyone
down,,I like to praise people,so,,Marty is different than me,,so what,,he's a father and
a husband and Im sure underneath that some
times calluous attitude lies a fine guy.

Sure he has an attitude and lets everyone aware of his feelings,thats his perogitive.

So Im different,,,so what,,it dont make me better than Marty or anyone else,,I only feel
that if I have nothing good to say about someone,,I say nothing at all.

We need people like Marty Pollard...he has an
attitude, a sort of being sure of himself and
what he says,,,Sinatra was that way..Hey Marty,,,do you want to start a "Rat Pack"? I'll join,,but I'll be Dean Martin and you can be "ole Blue eyes.

As for my comment as being a pro or not may
have been mis-understood,,I didnt mean any thing when I made mention of to be a pro player or not,,I dont care if anyone of you
play or played for a living or whether or not
you play in your living room,, I play in my
bathroom,,,,the acoustics are great

.The
most important thing is what brought all of us here together..from all over the world I see posts,,and I find that amazing.

I have never seen a Drummers Forum have you?
I have never seen a Saxaphone players Forum
have you?

So with that in mind,,listen up,,,,Leon wrote
the melody and Merle Travis wrote the lyrics
(which btw) are seldom used,,,and here is part of it,,,AND WHEN HE SLIDES THAT THING,ACROSS THE STRINGS,SOUNDS SO DOGGONE HEAVENLY YOU'LL HEAR THE ANGELS SING. I think
thats what this is all about. Thats why we are all here.

And as far as that often used comment,,of being run off the Forum,,well,,no one is running me off. And I wont quit either,even though I owe Joey Ace a bet we made and I lost.

Lets put this back together and pick up your
bar and "slide that "thing across the strings
Sounds so doggone "heavenly you'll hear the
angels sing,and when you stomp your feet,your
heart will beat,,,a rhythm to that ..........

STEEL GUITAR RAG......is that a deal or what?

Hey Marty..Im not as old as you think
I started with Fender at 17 years of age.
Later my friends and as I have said many times before "Let There Be Peace In The Valley" and listen to those Angels sing.

Gotta go walk the dogs,,They too have an attitude and they "mean business". We need each other,,,who else could we pick on?

Besides I have never asked for anyones W2 form to prove his or her income as a pro musician,Shhhh I owe the Govt a few bucks from a guitar I sold years ago.

Uh Oh.....there go the dogs..they are in a
"up tempo" gotta go. Besides,,,how could I quit? how could Marty quit? what would bOb do
with all those "locks" he uses to close threads up..??[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 30 September 2002 at 07:12 AM.]

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 30 Sep 2002 8:06 am

Jeff Evans....re your comment I used to storm
off the Forum in a "huff" on Tuesdays and Thursdays,,,I dont recall,,,,however Im carefull when I"storm" off now,,Tuesdays and Thursdays heh?? No I wouldnt want to do that,,,it would ruin my weekends,,,

keeping
track are you? I should have you as my accountant.

Its a compliment to know you are keeping your eye on me,,at least I have

"Someone To Watch Over Me"

Thanks for looking out for me my friend. 007

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 30 Sep 2002 8:21 am

I was in a band once that covered a girl pop song called "All I Wanna Do". The original had a really lame (IMO) pedal steel part. When we played it, I imagined balancing a brick on my head. I copped the part pretty well, I thought. I wasn't playing for steel players - I was playing for an audience that was familiar with the tune and expected to hear a certain part.

I don't know anything about this artist or this TV performance, but I can guarantee that if David sounded primitive, it was deliberately so. We do what we have to do for a gig. Maybe a dozen steel players saw that performance. Thousands of Frank Black fans saw it, I'm sure. The goal was to sell Frank Black records, not to highlight the capabilities of the steel guitar.

We do what we have to.

------------------
<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic), Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6), Roland Handsonic

Johan Jansen · Post by **Johan Jansen** » 30 Sep 2002 8:22 am

Marty,
perhaps it sounds 'jibberich'what I said, English is not my native language, but I think I made myself clear: Someone who treats others with respect, is someone who deserves it too. Same goes for assholes

JJ[This message was edited by Johan Jansen on 30 September 2002 at 09:24 AM.]

Mark Ardito · Post by **Mark Ardito** » 30 Sep 2002 8:42 am

I have been a HUGE Pixies fan for many many years. I also happen to be a Frank Black (solo) fan. He just release 2 albums both with steel guitar on them from David Phillips. I think he did a great job playing steel guitar on some real power pop tunes. great licks and fills. He played just what the song needed.

He sounds very strong on the records. I am sure he could play more if the context was right, but that is the key. The context is to play simple. It is a heavy pop tune that has steel in it. K.I.S.S (Keep it simple stupid) the best I ever learned from my steel teacher.

Mark

------------------
Sho~Bud Pro I, Fender D-8 (C6&E13) http://www.darkmagneto.com

Ray Montee (RIP) · Post by **Ray Montee (RIP)** » 30 Sep 2002 9:09 am

Well said Johan and timely too! Thank God, the Forum has contributors like you. Keep YOUR posts a comin'.

Marty Pollard · Post by **Marty Pollard** » 30 Sep 2002 9:42 am

Someone who treats others with respect, is someone who deserves it too. Same goes for assholes

Awfully judgemental of you, eh Hans? Awfully ironic, too. I guess you and I are in the same boat (much to your chagrin, I'm sure). Glad to see you're at least getting a handle on the colloquialisms, though! Now, go stick your finger up your... dike!

Hmmm, primitive; yes, good word for the situation. Problem is, this was just acoustic and steel with a significant number of chord changes. No call for 'primitive'.

And Mark's point is moot; this was a slow ballady thing perfect for using some melodic figures to increase listener interest (which it DESPERATELY needed).

I know it wasn't a steel showcase but still...

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 30 Sep 2002 9:53 am

Lets go after Osama Bin Laden...and not people on here.

Marty,,,,cool down

Lets end this in a cival manner.
Better days are coming... bOb get the lock ready....
[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 30 September 2002 at 10:55 AM.]

Joel Glassman · Post by **Joel Glassman** » 30 Sep 2002 10:02 am

Sax forum: http://forum.saxontheweb.net/
--a good forum.

This one I don't read but: http://www.drumforum.com/

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 30 Sep 2002 10:23 am

No need to get ugly. All opinions have been voiced. I'm locking it up.

------------------
<img align=left src="http://b0b.com/coolb0b2.gif" border="0"> Bobby Lee
-b0b- quasar@b0b.com 
-System Administrator