We Are All The Same

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 19 Aug 2002 2:55 am

While reading the different posts concerning the Jack Green performance on the Opry Saurday night, I got to thinking. We steel players, whether we are Tommy White or someone like me, our job is to back the artist. That's what we get paid for. On the Opry, Jack is THE artist. In fact the Opry has a lot if ARTISTS. It's not a steel guitar function. For several months now I have been observing the posts Janice makes about the Opry line-up. It's the same thing for response. "If it ain't got steel it ain't country and it ain't any good!" It's getting really old. Maybe we should take it for what it is------------Music. Just remeber it's the Grand Old Opry, not the Grand Old Steel Guitar Show. Ok, Let the flaming begin.

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1985 Emmons push-pull, Session 500, Nashville400, 65 re-issue Fender Twin, Fender Tele

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 19 Aug 2002 5:39 am

Lots of truth in what Craig said. Even though I get to play a lot on the jobs I currently do, it's usually not what I would prefer to play....but what the vocalist (and the public) expect and want to hear!
Gene Jones www.genejones.com

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 19 Aug 2002 5:46 am

Craig, I too agree. Guys who complain about stuff like this can't possibly be professional musicians, most of whom have hopefully figured out what the job requires.

The guys that throw temper tantrums like little babies whining because they didn't get what they want have a safe gig on their living room couches. But when your ass is on a pack-a-seat on a bandstand, you do what you have to do to get the gig done, and just shut up about it. Or find yourself one of them lucrative "living room couch" gigs.

This subject's wore me out. 'Nuff said.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 19 August 2002 at 06:48 AM.]

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 19 Aug 2002 7:21 am

Craig, Gene and Herb have said it all, like it or not.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 19 Aug 2002 9:05 am

I don't agree. I tend to think of singers as the people who do the fills between the steel guitar parts.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic) Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 19 Aug 2002 9:14 am

You do present a compelling argument, b0b. Hmmm...

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 19 Aug 2002 9:28 am

Come on BOb...you don't really mean that...My feelings that the vocalist role is only to give the musicians a "break" is just a minority opinion!

But who cares?
Gene Jones www.genejones.com [This message was edited by Gene Jones on 20 August 2002 at 03:32 AM.]

Ray Montee (RIP) · Post by **Ray Montee (RIP)** » 19 Aug 2002 10:19 am

I recall seeing black and white movies of Tommy Dorsey, Glenn Miller, Benny Goodman, and many other BIG TIME, BIG BANDS of the 30-40's. They played to HUGE CROWDS (1,000s!) of sober people while wearing matching suits/outfits.
The lady vocalist in her puffy, frilly formal gown, was always seated to one side of center stage, usually along side some skinny pimply faced male wearing a tux and loaded with hair oil. They sat with class, on simple old chairs and waited quiety, "low profile" until their time arrived. They got up, sang a great performance, then sat down. No jumping or jiving; no sexually stimulating costumes; no striped knee high socks or fish net stockings with large holes and/or runs. NO underwear on the outside of street clothing!
Something like one vocal for every four or five instrumentals.......... (not bad!)
NO smoke bombs, sky bursting flames, no one jumping on top of amplifiers, riding a dog-house bass around the stage or destroying musical instruments...... Even Spike Jones' funny musician's had both talent and "CLASS"...... something that seems to be sorely lacking in much of the music crowd these days.
Even sadder, so many of the musicians in the younger crowd of today seem to think this "no class" appearance and conduct is great stuff and the core of "showmanship". I wonder if it has anything to do with drug burn-out, alcoholism, "ADD" or things of that sort? This is ONLY a QUESTION, not an indictment!!!!

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 19 Aug 2002 10:43 am

In the 30's and 40's there were certain popular attitudes considered by society to be the proper way to behave and to dress. Every generation of teens rebels to a degree against what they think are the "old-fashioned and boring" attitudes of their parents, they bring in what they like; more action, volume, "outrageous" behavior. Every generation goes a little further than the last, and it's added up to where we are today. People say, "yeah but remember the older people of the 1930's & '40's hated big band music, said the same thing about it as you guys say about punk/metal/thrash/etc." That's true, and every older generation for the most part dislikes the new style of music and thinks it's immoral and noise, but we've gone step by step, not just with the style of music but also with relaxing the attitude towards behaviour and dress, and it's added up to where we are now. Herb, you can say it better than I (or probably anyone else here), what do you think?

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 19 Aug 2002 1:50 pm

Actually, the part of last Saturday's GOO that I enjoyed the most was the Brunette (can't think of her name right now) singing, and guess what, NO STEEL AT ALL.

It doesn't need steel for me to like it.

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Carter D10 9p/10k
Richard Sinkler

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 19 Aug 2002 3:56 pm

RAY
I couldn't agree with you more. Those were the days. Dorsey at the NY Paramount,,Sinatra
Dick Haymes,,Stan Kenton,Julie Christy,Perry Como.Vic Damone, Benny Goodman,Glenn Miller,
Guy Lombardo,Les Brown,Xavier Cugat,Charlie
Barnet, Sammy Kaye Eddy Duchin,Tony Pastor,Bunny Berigan, Arty Shaw,Vaughn Monroe
Fats Waller,Shep Fields,,If it were not for all of the above and the "Brooklyn Dodgers"
I could have been a doctor,lawyer, if they call this music today,,with no stage presence
or talent as I listed,,,I would climb the Empire State Building and drop my Fender.

You have NEVER been as "right" on as you are
right now my friend..

Sammy K. was a tough one to work with,great
post.I close my eyes and see everything that
you described...I cant leave out "Buddy Rich"
he was a killer of a drummer.

Those were the Days my Friend,,I hoped they would never end,,,but they did. Thanks for this. Last but certainly not least,Alvino Rey
and his "singing guitar" wow.[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 19 August 2002 at 05:00 PM.]

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 19 Aug 2002 4:28 pm

OK, bOb, your reply was silly! (but I liked it)
Craig, Yep, guess I agree, not that it matters much. I like the thinking on this subject by everyone though. Interesting thinking, we need Jody Carver about now though.
What ever happend to Les Campbell?

Did someone say Buddy Rich? Loved his personality, I worked for him for over 30 seconds, in a row! AND, lived to tell about it!!!!

Sir Franklin Hawker III [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 19 August 2002 at 05:30 PM.]

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 19 Aug 2002 4:53 pm

Bobbe
I dont recall Les Campbell,,,,you see,I played hookey to go into Manhattan to see these big bands,,maybe Les was playing at a time I was in school.

Carmen Cavallaro ,,Ziggy Elman,,Earl Hines,Hal McIntyre,Duke Ellington,,Shep Fields,,Teddy Powell,Claude Thornhill,Eddy Duchin,,Ima Duchin,Jan Savitt,,Smiley Roberts

But I dont recall Les Campbell,,,,,give me a hint. These I remember,,,but not Les Campbell
Im not that old

Edited for Louis Prima..
Sam Butera and Keely Smith..[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 19 August 2002 at 06:50 PM.]

Gil Berry · Post by **Gil Berry** » 19 Aug 2002 7:12 pm

Hey, Bobby Lee...I'm with you 100 per cent. There are a few singers that can trip my trigger, but only a few PSG players that don't!

Willis Vanderberg · Post by **Willis Vanderberg** » 19 Aug 2002 8:22 pm

Hey...thats some good stuff hittin my old ears.You guys are right on..We have a lot of "Musicians that just don't get it"
I worked a gig last week with a local band.The singer sang a slow ballad and filled the dance floor.Then proceded to run them all off with Old mountain dew and Tiger by the tail played at triple speed.Two lead men covering everybody up.Both trying to play the melody while the singer is singing.
Then when we were on break they told me what a great steel player Buddys is and LLoyd and three or four others.I asked if they listened to their recordings and the said Oh Yeah.They still don't get it.The good thing is I didn't have to worry about tone or anything because no one knew the difference.
These are not young kids, these guys are in their 60's and of course played with everybody from Gene Autry to Bennie Martin.
The sad parrt is a lot of the patrons thought it was great,,...Go figure.
Buddy Van

Jerry Hedge · Post by **Jerry Hedge** » 20 Aug 2002 5:46 pm

Some of the people on this forum SLAY me!!! I just finished a 1 month run of a play called "The Honky Tonk Angels", written by the same author as "Always Patsy Cline". Our music director had done things like "Footloose" on Broadway, the actresses had done musicals like "Cats" and "Les Miz" on Broadway. One actress' father was Bobby Fischer, the writer of songs like "Temporarily Yours" (the Jeannie Pruett song). One of the numbers in the play was "Nightlife". The steel guitar book said for the player to lay out on the song. Rather than argue and make a scene I layed out. Guess what? I just got a call from the most popular local studio to be put in rotation for session work!! Not every song has to have PSG on it!!! I've found if you're a TEAM PLAYER and you do what the boss tells you to do you get farther in life than if you're a troublemaker and make waves.[This message was edited by Jerry Hedge on 20 August 2002 at 06:46 PM.][This message was edited by Jerry Hedge on 21 August 2002 at 07:53 PM.]

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 20 Aug 2002 5:54 pm

AMEN to that.

chas smith R.I.P. · Post by **chas smith R.I.P.** » 20 Aug 2002 7:04 pm

I've found if you're a TEAM PLAYER and you do what the boss tells you to do you get farther in life than if you're a troublemaker and make waves.

The name on the bottom of the check makes the rules. Given how much talent is out there, nobody has to work with a bad attitude when there's another player that's probably just as good and brings a good attitude also.