playing steel in the past, compared to these days

Rick Collins · Post by **Rick Collins** » 4 Jun 2002 10:33 am

I recently saw a show in Las Vegas, in a theater with seating for about 200. The drums were miked with two microphones. I pulled pieces from a cocktail napkin, rolled them, and made earplugs.

I've grown to appreciate the sound of jet engines at take-off thrust.

Robert Todd · Post by **Robert Todd** » 4 Jun 2002 11:09 am

Hmmmmm..... I am from the hippie country generation. I didn't even know who emmons was until I had played for 10 years or so. Bobby black was my hero, and I learned about swing from Asleep at the Wheel.

I played greatful dead music through college mixed with Bennie goodman (ladie Be Good and dinah) loving spoonful, linda rhondstadt, emmy lou harris, some traditional bluegrass and blues. In other words, I tried to play many types of music.

Today, the original music scene here in Atlanta has a bunch of great music that includes Rock-a-Billy, Country ala Ray Price, Rock and a buch of other styles. Most bands are 4 or 5 piece, and more than one feature pedal steel as the lead instrument.

The establishment has forgotton steel, but the roots rock alternative country, americana genre sure hasn't. We play for 20 something year olds with purple hair tattoos and pierced body parts.

Music lives and the steel is a unique instrument that will continue to grow.

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 4 Jun 2002 1:01 pm

Mike Cass--I agree with you. Thinking about what you said that the age group seems younger today and are more for being entertained. Back in the sixties, when I was in my twenties playing in bands, the audience seemed to be older with a few in their sixties. Funny thing today they seem to be much younger but they are the same age group. Back then I was the youngest in the band but now I am the oldest. Man, things have changed! Joe

Ray Montee (RIP) · Post by **Ray Montee (RIP)** » 4 Jun 2002 1:35 pm

THANK YOU Carl Dixon. It needed to be said.

Something a lot of folks have failed to recognize is simply this:

YELL & SCREAM at your kids and/or an employee, or a loved one.....and they'll turn you "off" and walk/run away.

Whisper to your kids and/or an audience, and they'll all shut up, lean forward, and strain to listen to what it is that's being said.

Some musicians, in spite of their handicaps, are still playing for their OWN AMAZEMENT........and not for the benefit of their audidence. Pleasing the audience used to be the rule.........rather than merely self gratification by feeding one's own sagging ego.

When crowds leave an establishment......it's usually not the "quality" of the music being offered, but rather the VOLUME that has driven them away.

It's only the younger musicians I've seen... that actually wrap their mouth around the end of the round shaped microphone and then scream into it. The logic of this defies me!

But like the popular Hippy T-shirts say:
"If the music is too loud....you're OLD!"

John De Maille · Post by **John De Maille** » 4 Jun 2002 1:41 pm

I started playing steel back in the early 70's, under the influence of the Flying Burrito's, New Riders, Poco, Gram Parsons, EmmyLou Harris, Linda Ronstatd, and all the other country rock bands, that had a steel player. I eventually switched to pure country because that particular venue payed a more stable and consistant paycheck. All through the 70's and middle 80's jobs and recording sessions were so bountiful, that you actually had your pick of what you wanted to do. But, the enevitable happened. Someone named Billy Joe Cyrus and his Achey Breaky Heart showed up. All of a sudden, all these "Line Dancers" took over. It seemed as though the whole world of music turned topsy turvy. They were now the stars, and you were just the beat.The instructors were even worse. They were the kingpins now, you were just a cog in the wheel. I found the music that they were playing was in my opinion, distasteful, awfull, and not country. And, if you didn't play it, you didn't work. So, we acquiessed, and learned the tunes. But, I have to tell you all right now, that I was very close to quitting the music scene, right then and there. I'm afraid I'll never be as happy playing as when I was earlier in my life. The steel guitar is part of me, and I'm a part of it. The steel world is a great place to be, and I feel honored to be there, with it. So, in closing, Was It Better Back Then? For me, YES. But, I ain't dead yet, and who knows what the future might bring

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 4 Jun 2002 3:01 pm

John what furure is in store for you??? my take is that with your great ability to play as you do,,and your hard work with the PSGA over the years,,,you have a lot of things going for you my friend.

Dont ever sell yourself short,,I know what talent you have. Your style of playing is something that will always be in style,,,country...western swing..and whatever
you play..I think its great. Not many on this
Forum are aware of your talents and your wife
Darlene add's to that,,,,,you two are country
as far as Im concerned,,,,the both of you have been "dipped" in country and that dont come off.

Your Red Necked Buddy from PA,,,,,you have a friend in Pennsylvania,,,,

& always will..

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 4 Jun 2002 3:48 pm

Like John, I adapted to not playing regularly with the coming of the line-dance craze. Audiences became largely unappreciative, and they seldom even noticed the band...except when you didn't do the song "exactly like the record", or you didn't have "gigawatt thumper" sound system. (My term for the line-dance stuff was "hillbilly disco".) The club where I used to play (up until about 5 years ago) had an owner who hated line dancers with a passion, often ordering them to get out! He said they didn't spend any money (except on their "costumes"), took up the whole dance floor, and they all disappeared...like Cinderella...just before midnight.

The band I still work with occasionally only does a couple line-dance songs, the rest are Owens, Young, Price, Watson, and Bush songs...good ol' 4/4 and 3/4 country songs. Luckily, I don't have to play music if I don't want to, and I feel bad for people who must play what they don't like just to make a buck.

My philosophy has always been that music is the best job in the world if you love what you're doing, and the worst job in the world if you don't.

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 4 Jun 2002 7:56 pm

Carl- I got to hand it to you. You let it all hang out, and it is all so true. That Dr. Spock sold a lot of books , made a lot of money, but sure did a lot of damage.

As for loud, I was hired years ago, by a Singer who did, TV shows, etc and club
work for pretty good money.

You know what? I played one night at his club, and they were so loud that I thought the sound waves were going disintegrate me.

I quit! I only finished the night because I felt obligated to........al.

Arty Passes · Post by **Arty Passes** » 4 Jun 2002 10:01 pm

“These kids today......”
Sorry, but some valid points about volume are clouded by the fact that IT’S DR. SPOCK’S FAULT?????????
I know this is OT, but you pushed a hot button for me, and I can’t let it go unchallenged...
Young people have been rebelling since the beginning of history – that’s how we change and develop as humans. It didn’t start with Elvis and it certainly didn’t start because many of us figured out that it’s not OK to beat your children (the euphemism is “discipline”), and they actually turn out better if you don’t (mine did) .
I could go on, but I now return you to your regularly scheduled forum topic.....
"Back in my day, when our shoes wore out, we wore the boxes....and we liked it!"
Arty

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 5 Jun 2002 4:41 am

.[This message was edited by C Dixon on 05 June 2002 at 06:52 AM.]

Arty Passes · Post by **Arty Passes** » 5 Jun 2002 6:35 am

Mr. Dixon,
I don't want to belabor this ridiculous tangent, but I was trying to be respectful and not personal – sorry you deleted your reply before more people got to read it and see who we’re dealing with, but I saw it and it was not pretty. You know nothing about me, or much else, it seems.
Now, can we get back to that nice discussion on how these days compare to the old days?

‘nuff said.
your pal,
“Sunny”
sorry, bOb, he started it

John Russell · Post by **John Russell** » 5 Jun 2002 6:49 am

I agree with Arty. Maybe I don't want to sound like the geezer I'm acutally becoming. It seems a little harsh to blame the kids, but it does seem like they're out of control some times. The folks I played for a just a few years ago weren't kids and they liked the music LOUD.

There was a time in my youth when I liked it loud too. Certain rock acts from the '60s sounded great to me but I doubt they were as loud as today's concerts. I've seen Little Feat about four times, twice in the '70s and twice during the past four years. No question that the last two shows were considerably louder. With their great tunes they could have been fantastic at about 25-40% less volume. The speakers were actually breaking up. When I do go to a large concert I wear earplugs.

But country music, to me was never intended to be so "in-your-face" loud. It used to be unique for that reason. So it's really a matter of personal taste. I happen to listen to singer/songwriters, acoustic bands and lots of "folk" type acts more than the few rock acts I like. When I first started to seriously listen to country music it was because it fell into that first category and because the "craft" of playing was very much appreciated by the players and audience. Hot country lead guitar solos were, to me, far more enjoyable than the hot rock/blues licks. Just seemed to be more talent and emotion involved. And this applies to steel guitar playing even more so. It's more an art form or craft, if you like, than the bombast of blistering rock guitar.
So it was disappointing when this sound crept into mainstream country, especially after the "traditional revival" of Randy Travis, Ricky Skaggs and others that began in the mid-1980s.Just as it was getting "good" again, it got "edgy" and too loud. (I know, it's that geezer thing, sorry.)
I'm actually not worried about it since I know there are so many hot players, on this forum and elsewhere who know the difference as well. But I want to agree with all the posters, especially older players who remember the '60s and '70s when country music was so popular and gigs were plentiful. Those days, that style, that scene is gone though elements of it will come back in ways that may pleasantly surprise us from time to time. Keep your chops up and stay positive. --jr

Jack Byrd · Post by **Jack Byrd** » 5 Jun 2002 6:58 am

As my brother Jerry said to me a while back. "I am glad I came along when I did. I could not make it in today's musical(??) world."

Robert Todd · Post by **Robert Todd** » 5 Jun 2002 6:59 am

Interesting discussion, regarding loud. There is definately more sustain, power if you like, in loud, but more finess in soft. For us it's the drummer who sets the volume. When we play restaurants, we don't let him bring the kick or sticks he uses a snare a high hat and a ride with brushes. That allows the rest of us to turn down to acoustic guitar level. On the other hand when we play clubs the owners want dancing so they want a bit of drive.

As for pure steel events, I think Bill Fergusen makes the stage show just about perfect with respect to volume, not too little not too much.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 5 Jun 2002 7:38 am

I play too loud for some bands. Always have. I guess it's because I was raised on rock and roll. I never learned to play acoustic music. I was electric from the get-go.

------------------
<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic) Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 5 Jun 2002 8:05 am

I played with a band in the 40's and 50's and our motto was "We aint good but we're LOUD". lol..............al

Eric Jaeger · Post by **Eric Jaeger** » 5 Jun 2002 11:04 am

Hey, if you don't like loud, *show* people something better. If it's good they'll like it, and you've set a precedent. When I was a young punk (watch those grins

) I loved
a local band called Blue Cheer. I think they
invented the wall-of-Marshalls sound

I changed my tastes. Local bands in little bars with tiny amps, and sometimes barely-miked acoutic instruments in the mix. Great songs I'd never heard (Ernest Tubb, Red Simpson, Patsy Cline).

I truly believe that if we put quality in front of people, enough folks will join in to make it worthwhile.

(Long ramble on the venality and stupidity of music marketeers deleted in the interests of your sanity)

John De Maille · Post by **John De Maille** » 5 Jun 2002 2:03 pm

Thankyou Jody, for your nice comments about my wife and me. It is greatly appreciated. As to my future? I'll never give up playing the steel. It has become mentally attached to my psyche somehow. And, I would be lost without it. I can't even walk by it, without strumming across the strings, or actually sitting down at it and playing for a while. It seems to be engrained in me. But, I don't think I'll go out looking for jobs to play or sessions to do, just to do them. As I said before, most of the music today does not entice me enough to chase it down and play it.I really prefer the older classic country tunes, and I get much more enjoyment out of playing them.Gigs for my venue do pop-up occassionally, and I never hesitate to do them.The pay is average, but, the mental rewards are astronomical.
Sorry I rambled so much.

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 6 Jun 2002 8:32 am

John,,,no need to thank me,,,,there are many
of us who feel as I do about John DeMaille &
Darlene DeMaille,,,,its just that they are
not as outspoken as I. I too feel as you re todays so called Country Music What??? Thats
country???.

The future aint what it used to be,,,see you
in November. My best to both of you. PS. I cant tell one player from the other these days without a score card,,,who's on first?...what's on second? and Im not being sarcastic,,but thats my opinion and Im entitled to that. Country Music is not as we
remember it to be,,,,,Its heavy metal with H-Bar C shirts and Wrangler Jeans,,thats what
they call country today. You dont ramble at all,,,,look at me,,,,on second thought Dont look at me

.... My Best to you two guys.

edited for Country Music,,,,

Bernie Gracin was more Country than what I hear today and Pop Gracin was the original Gabby Hayes.

POP wore those baggy jeans,,,,Did you ever hear Pop Gracin Yodel??? [This message was edited by Jody Carver on 06 June 2002 at 11:29 AM.]

Leigh Howell · Post by **Leigh Howell** » 6 Jun 2002 3:39 pm

You hit the nail on the head Carl!!!!

Leigh

Danny Bates · Post by **Danny Bates** » 6 Jun 2002 10:08 pm

Carl Dixon said "Elvis' sound level was way too loud for ANY body's GOD given ears. And his level was no where near what they are today"

Carl your post was wonderful and full of wisdom.

However, when I saw Elvis live in the early 70's, he was using 2 "Voice Of The Theatre" cabinets (with horns)on each side of the stage. The orchestra had one mic hanging down over it. This was a venue of about 10,000 people! You could easily talk while he was performing without raising your voice. It was easy to hear the audience talking and the girls going crazy. I have many times felt that this concert was very captivating because of his lower volume.

John Russell · Post by **John Russell** » 7 Jun 2002 8:27 am

Danny, you illustrate my point exactly. What we thought of as loud before isn't even close to today's volume. Sorta like open throttle in a Corvette seems quite fast if you drive a family sedan--but nothing like full throttle in a top fuel dragster.

I admit that sound systems needed improvement back in the early '70s and improvements were made. But why did we need to up the wattage from a couple of hundred watts to several thousand? Did that improve the quality of the performance? Most sound techs I've talked to say that clearly "Yes-and if it seems to loud than you're too old or you just don't understand." Well I say "don't understand what?" I think I know a thing or two about music and I know a great performance when I hear one. It probably comes down to this: Are we talking about music or the entertaiment business? How naive we musicians are to confuse the two! --JR