Kayton Roberts Front Neck C Diatonic sound

[Jimmy Washington]

Im looking for advice or recordings of Kayton using the C diatonic sound on the front neck. The full chord voicings are built within the tuning, but it doesn't seem too friendly for double stops like a C diatonic is.

[Chris Scruggs]

Kayton’s outside neck was tuned to an F13/9 tuning:

F
D
A
F
G
Ed
C
F

This was a variation of E13 only tuned up half a step and with the two middle strings reversed to accommodate some particular bar slants. As an E tuning, it would appear like this:

E
C#
G#
E
F#
D
B
E

^^^ notice the middle E and F# are backwards! So the voicing of this tuning is:

1
6
3
1
9
d7
5
1

The “diatonic” type licks you are hearing are from when you play d7, 1, 9, 3, 6. On C diatonic, you hear this voicing on Jerry Byrd tunes like “Come A Little Closer,” where the tuning is, in certain passages, approached as a G13/9.

So, if I am correct in my understanding of your question, what you’re hearing is the voicing found in these strings:

Kayton’s F13/9 tuning:

F
D 6
A 3
F 1
G 9
Ed 7
C
F

C Diatonic’s G13/9 voicing:

E 6
C
B 3
A 9
G 1
F 7
E

[Michael Kiese]

Kayton’s outside neck was tuned to an F13/9 tuning:

F
D
A
F
G
Ed
C
F

^^^ [the F and G are backwards] so the voicing of this tuning is:

1
6
3
1
9
d7
5
1

Aloha Chris,

Thank you for your contributions to the forum. I've benefited a bunch thanks to your advice and insights from old comments years past.

In doing my own research on Kayton's tunings, there seems to be some major discrepancies. Perhaps as a subject matter expert on Kayton's playing, you would be kind enough to shed some light on the subject.

If you take a look at this YouTube link, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnfPBYONn3c&t=521s, it shows Kayton's Tombstone with his tunings on it. Clearly, on the outside neck, his second string is notated as a C.

You stated above that it is a D. Furthermore, I contacted John Ely because his website https://www.hawaiiansteel.com/tunings/s ... ?link=1038 is inline with the second string being a D as well. John was adamant that it was a D, and he pointed me towards an old interview in which Kayton said it was a D.

Is it possible that Kayton's Tombstone has a typo (gasp!)? Or perhaps he went back and forth from a C and a D?

Thanks in advance.

[Nathan Laudenbach]

This is why this forum is so awesome!

[Chris Scruggs]

Yes, Kayton’s tombstone, for the most part, is a typo. He would typically tune the second string to D though he would sometimes tune it down to C to get E9 sounds (actually F9 on his guitar), comparable to the tuning Jerry Byrd used on his Admirable Byrd album. So even though he used F9 occasionally, his default tuning for the outside neck was F13, with the second string tuned up to D.

Regarding his other slight variations in his tunings:

On his C6/A7 neck, for tunes like Kayton’s Rag, he would tune the fourth string from G down to F# (making it D9 root omitted on the high 5 strings, A6 on the low six). This was also a Jerry Byrd tuning (as used by JB on Byrd’s Nest and other tunes, it’s also the same as what pedal 5 does to string five on on C6 on PSG).

For “The Bells Of St Mary’s” (which Hank Snow’s band would close his Opry spots), Kayton would retune his C6/A7 to what he called his “chime tuning:”

E
C
A
G
E
C#
F
low string removed

To get this seven string tuning, he would de-tune his bass A string all the way, pull it off the nut, and hold it down with a tiny hook next to the pickup so that it wouldn’t get in the way of his thumb. Then he would tune is seventh string from A all the up to F, 1/2 a step higher than his fifth string. Because of this, that string was a 34 gauge. He said in all of his years, he only broke that string one time tuning it quickly up to F. The purpose of the F string is, when playing open harmonics over the 12th, 19th and 24th frets (same as 12th, 7th and 5th frets), to be able to play a full major scale in the key of C.

He also used a Stevens bar, and .018 gauge finger picks.

I hope this helps! Chris

[Rob French]

I love it! A special string hook! Thanks for sharing this wealth of knowledge, Chris.

[Mike Christensen]

Cool thread, Thank you for all that,

[Sebastian Müller]

That is awesome, thank you so much for your insights, Chris !

[Michael Kiese]

Yes, Kayton’s tombstone, for the most part, is a typo.

Lol, that's NUTS. haha.

It's literally etched in STONE, and it's WRONG. smdh. lol.

Thanks for clearing that up Chris!

[Chris Scruggs]

I mean, he DID use that tuning but it was more of a secondary way to tune it.