Tuning 2nd string feel stop on Emmons push/pull trouble

[Deondro Nevarez]

I recently purchased a beautiful Emmons guitar but i cant get the feel stop to tune on thew 2nd string. The instructions I got say open tune from the headstock to D# then push the RKR all the way and tune (from the top row 2nd hole) to C#. When I do that the note stops tuning as a get close to C# it stays sharp and it feels like I've lost pressure on the screw, it just turns feely with no tuning adjustment happening at that point (the screw is proud of the end plate). Then the instructions say to tune the feel stop on the lower row 2nd hole, when i get close to D it doesn't seem to tune any more (the spring is not engaged and seems to spin feely) . Im assuming the changer needs to be tuned but I'm a total novice. I live in New Mexico and I don't think there is anyone local to take this issue to. I am using a Peterson StoboPlusHDC using the EP9 setting while tuning the pedals and the EM9 while tuning open strings. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[Lane Gray]

If you can lean over and watch what's happening, I'll wager that, as you get near C#, the raise scissor comes off the stop bar, so additional effort doesn't lower the string. MSA are famous for this, but their return springs aren't adjustable.

Go to the 2nd string return spring, and loosen it two turns, and see if that was enough.

[Ian Worley]

Hi Lane Gray, long time no see! I think OP is working on a Push-Pull, so likely just a slack issue. Is there also a raise on the 2nd string? If yes, what is likely happening is the stop collars on that raise pull rod are set too tight and just not allowing the lower to drop fully. If so it's an easy fix, check this post from a couple of weeks ago, someone had a similar issue: viewtopic.php?p=3264857#p3264857

[Lane Gray]

I was betting on a LeGrande because lever travel without pitch change makes no sense on a push-pull.

[Deondro Nevarez]

Ian and Lane, thank you for your response! I will take a look that the thread you mentioned Ian! I very much appreciate you both taking the time

[Deondro Nevarez]

I thought I said it was a push pull but looking back I forgot! It's a 74' Emmons S12, 5 by 5 P/P. Its a laquer guitar, and doesn't have a model name that I can see.

[Ian Worley]

Hi Deondro, your thread title does say push/pull.

A lower stopping short on a push-pull is a typical side effect when there's insufficient slack on the raise side, so it does make sense. PP fingers are pulled directly on raises, but typical lowers rely on string tension until they hit their stop screw, so the lower would be interrupted if a stop collar for a raise on the same string is set too tight and stops it short of the desired pitch.

Is there a raise on that string Deondro? If not then there is something else going on. If so perhaps you can post a pic of the underside of the changer that shows how the half stop is set up. There are a couple of fairly common possibilities, in particular if the lower is set up in a non-standard way where the rod is pushing directly on the raise finger. Is there an extra spring on the end of the raise finger on string 2?

[Lane Gray]

I apologize for missing the push-pull part. The normal half-stop on the Emmons has the C# tuned in the top row, and the D in the hidden row, with an extra spring going to the "raise finger".
If the feel is mushy at the D, I'd tighten the return spring at the deck, because that's the source of the extra tension between D and C#. But be careful and take your time, because those springs are a pain in the ass to work on.

[Dave Magram]

Deondro,

Assuming that there is not a raise on the 2nd string that is interfering with the lower to D and then to C#, you might want to see if that knee lever is set up to also lower the 9th string from D to C#.

Because the 2nd string is a very light gauge that doesn't offer much resistance, it was a common practice to time the (heavier) 9th string lower to C# to actuate just when the 2nd string hits the D note--creating more resistance so you can better feel when the 2nd string is at D.

- Dave