Newbie Advice Knee Lever Upgrade: 3x2 vs 3x4

[Michael Lavrich]

New to steel, only been playing a few months on a GFI student 3x2 in E9 that I picked up locally here in Richmond, VA. I wanted to get some feedback on if it was worth upgrading the student model to be a 3x4. The cost of the upgrade is over 1/2 of what I paid for the instrument used. I don't envision myself upgrading to another steel as this is a good gigging setup for what I'm doing at the moment. Wanted to get some opinions before I dropped the money to do the upgrade.

[Bob Carlucci]

Are you getting the labor done by someone else or doing it yourself?.. The levers and pull parts should be available from GFI. Sounds like a lot of the cost you alluded to is labor.. That can be problematic these days.. Labor used to be cheaper than parts on everything from musical instruments to electronics repairs to auto repairs.. No more.. Labor is the major factor these days....bob

[Rich Ertelt]

Assuming the knees you have now raise and lower the Es?

How critical are other knee levers? Good question. I use the other ones a lot. I have the one that raises string 1 a whole step and string 2 a half. I use those a lot, especially since I have it set up with a feel half stop to get the 1/2 step (G) on the top strings. with A and B down, that gives me a 7th chord, kind of a Mooney thing. I do use the half and whole step lower on the 2nd string with the other knee lever, not as much as the first one I mentioned.

That being said, could I go out and do a gig without the ones on the right knee? Absolutely. Though important, those, to me, are more "icing on the cake". I need the 3 pedals and the two E (raise and lower), the others I could live without.

I'd consider myself like a beginning intermediate, I'm good enough to gig, no one comes to our gigs to stare at me playing pedal steel, lol. I will say, with what you have, you have years and years of stuff to work on, just with that. I certainly wouldn't stress about it.

[Chris Brooks]

"The cost of the upgrade is over 1/2 of what I paid for the instrument": Michael, how much did you pay for the instrument? If you paid 1000, for example, upgrade is 500. That's a better determiner. And that's not that much.

You would have 1500 in an instrument that's got all or most of the additional changes you'd ever need .

You're in Richmond. Take it over to Billy Cooper and have him add 2 knee levers. I'd install a double flat on string 2 also dropping string 7 a semitone flat; and on the other new lever, flat the Bs (String 5 and 10) 1/2 tone.

[Chuck Lemasters]

That being said, could I go out and do a gig without the ones on the right knee? Absolutely. Though important, those, to me, are more "icing on the cake". I need the 3 pedals and the two E (raise and lower), the others I could live without.

I agree...While I use more than three knee levers, my most important lever changes are lowering and raising E. I would add lowering the second string 1/2...

[Chris Brooks]

I like the 2nd string lower too, Chuck.

My opinion: if you can't install a double stop on String 2, install a whole tone drop. Having that 6th in no-pedals position is useful for Old-Timey sounds; and you do have a b7 there on the way down. Yeah, you're in No-man's land but with practice you might be able to to hit on the fly.

Another plus for a whole tone drop on 2 is that dropped, it is the same note as string 5 raised with the A pedal. Result: a unison which will "thicken" your pedals-down chord.

Still, I have become a big fan of the change that lowers the Bs a half tone.

[K Maul]

“3 pedals & 1 knee lever was enough to make me over $1 million a year“
Ben Keith.
That being said, I think you could just add one knee lever if you already have the E raise an E lowers. Maybe raising the first string F# up to G# and lowering the second string Eb to D or C# and lowering the ninth string D-C#. You can go along way with that arrangement.

[Michael Lavrich]

Thanks everyone so far, I think I'm going to save up and get the upgrade. Like I said before, i don't see myself upgrading to a better instrument for a very long time, from all of your advice I think i can really lean into what I got and get everything out of it that I need!

Thanks!
Mike

[Tommy Mc]

Even after the upgrade, you'll have a student model...very capable, but still a student model. Having said that, the way values keep rising, and the demand for student models, it's not like an upgrade is throwing good money after bad. The lever kits cost $250 each. Unfortunately they don't come with instructions, but if you're handy, it's not rocket science to do it yourself. You could add one, or both and have a very useable guitar.

[Nathan Pocock]

I just went through the same thing. I have a Justice S10 3x2 that I got locally. It's a really great little guitar and my first steel but after a while I decided I did want two more knee levers. I went back and forth about selling the Justice or installing two more knees myself. Well I finally got a knee lever kit from Ron at Justice and did the install this weekend. The install went well and I got everything up and tuned. I had to do some searching to try and figure everything out so it was a bit of a project but a good one for learning timing/pulls etc.

One reason I did the upgrade is that the S10 is a lightweight guitar and I do like to travel with it, so even if I get a higher end guitar in the future this one is a great fly rig. Also, I got a pretty good deal on the guitar locally so even after the cost of adding knees I don't think I would come out behind if I ever wanted to sell it. I think it is worth more as a 3x4 than as a 3x2.

I did the upgrade myself, I am reasonably mechanically inclined and I do have a good array of tools. I would say it wasn't all that hard, installing two levers took me a couple hours. I was going slow and making sure everything was cool because I hate drilling on guitars. After the parts were physically in it took me another couple hours screwing around with rodding to get the changes in tune and timed (as well as I can do anyway).

I think your GFI is probably in the same boat as my Justice, a couple more levers would be a great addition and it would still be useful as a second guitar/fly guitar/lightweight travel guitar even if you get another PSG in the future. I can't see any reason it wouldn't help with resale if you decide to do that. If you can DIY then its kind of a no-brainer, if you get it done then I guess it depends on labor and how much you like the GFI vs selling it and buying something else.

[Donny Hinson]

If someone charges you over $100 for labor to install a knee lever kit, I think you're gettin' screwed.
(Just my humble opinion, of course. )

[Bobby D. Jones]

I have not worked on a GFI Student model.
Does your guitar have an all pull changer?
Putting knee levers on, Adjusting and tuning knee levers on a GFI Ultra is easy to do. The Ultra knee levers have the stops built into the knee lever housing.

If you do it yourself. The only thing that would be a little scary, Make sure have stop on drill bit, IF you install the knee lever to the body.
Good Luck on this project.
Send me a personal message with phone number and time for a call, If you want to discuss the project. bj

[Brooks Montgomery]

If someone charges you over $100 for labor to install a knee lever kit, I think you're gettin' screwed.
(Just my humble opinion, of course. )

Well, if you had a plumber do the labor, it would be around $150. I’d rather a steel guy get the dough. (I just paid a plumber $150 for 30 minutes work).

[Dave Grafe]

I gigged for a decade with a 3+2 Sho-Bud Pro I, also recorded two albums and multiple demos with it. The 2nd string D#>D is the next most useful but is not as necessary as the E raises and lowers. Keep picking and save up for a pro axe and you'll be a lot better player and fully ready for the additional changes when it arrives.