how can they do that???

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 10 Jul 2003 4:26 pm

how ,in the name of God ,can someone take such a beautiful instrument and destroy it?What a beautiful guitar that was.There is people who buy old guitars and pay thousands of dollars to restore it and then there is a people who have great instrument and enough stupidity to do what this guy did.Check out this auction and you will find yourself with a tear in your eye...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2544745749&category=2384

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Jeff Coffell · Post by **Jeff Coffell** » 10 Jul 2003 4:32 pm

Some body should be shot for that. A death penalty offense if I've ever seen one.

Jeff

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 10 Jul 2003 5:18 pm

It hasn't been destroyed, only neglected. I don't notice anything that can't be "undone". Whoever owned it apparently didn't think as much of it as you fellows do, but...it was his guitar!

Funny though, the ZB was a pretty axe and it had a rather unique sound and design. But let's face it, it never was a "popular" guitar. I suppose this is one of the things that makes it hold such a reverent place today in the minds and hearts of a few players.

Earl Foote · Post by **Earl Foote** » 10 Jul 2003 5:45 pm

But it includes lots of rods & springs to help you get started

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 10 Jul 2003 5:47 pm

I emailed the guy who owns it. Pretty beat shape sold AS IS. Two pedals, four knees. All mismatched parts underneath. Maybe it will sell to someone who can bring it back to life.

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 10 Jul 2003 6:02 pm

It hasn`t been destroyed????Whatever happend to C6 neck?I guess I don`t see it very well but it loks like it`s missing ,or maybe not?Who can bring that back to life?That is a major project even for someone like Duane Marrs and Jeff.Even if they can fix the undercariage it will still be SD-10 and not a D-10.ZB`s were not popular?That is something I have never heard before in my life...

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Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 10 Jul 2003 7:35 pm

Damir, I agree with you. Unfortunately this goes on alot. Its a sin that someone did this to a good instrument. I've seen Sho-Buds in just as bad shape. Torn apart, screwed up, abused, then offered for sale. I see it where I live also. These people are low class.

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 10 Jul 2003 9:10 pm

Damir,
ZB's have always been a mess underside, thats how they work. Mine is very similar to the one on ebay, just as untidy looking underneath, but it plays like butter!

Les Pierce · Post by **Les Pierce** » 10 Jul 2003 10:46 pm

I agree with Donny. You can get all the old parts to put it back together just like it should be, necks and all. It doesn't look like you need to replace the end cap, as it doesn't appear to have cut up. There's nothing about these old steels that can't be fixed or put back to original.

It's not near the tragedy that you think it is. Somebody built it new, and somebody can put back just like it was. There is a lot of old ZB parts out there.

You guys that love these old things, buy and restore them. There is nothing you can't do yourself, or hire out to be done.

I mean, it's not like it was a black Emmons P/P....

Take care

Les

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 11 Jul 2003 6:13 am

I don't know if there are enough ZB parts around to restore the C6 neck. But at anywhere near the current bid this is a fantastic bargain for a gorgeous ole classic for someone who likes to restore pedal steels (not a beginner's project). So what if it ends up as a SD10, lots of guys love those. Unless the bidding goes out of whack you could see this someday on Bobbe Seymour's site for 10 times the current bid. What's done is done, now somebody needs to rebuild this unique beauty.

Brad Burch · Post by **Brad Burch** » 11 Jul 2003 6:57 am

It would be fairly easy to rebuild as a SD10. It would be a pretty expensive proposition though. The parts are around from people like Billy Knowles. The machanics are pretty archaic so a lot of stuff you can buy at Lowes or Home Depot and make yourself with hand tools. Its those motorcyle spokes and reverse threaded turnbuckles that are tough to get. This would be a fun project for somebody, I wish I had the time.

Brad Burch · Post by **Brad Burch** » 11 Jul 2003 7:17 am

You can see what this one could look like with a little love here: http://www.masga.org/zbcustom/page2.html

Gino Iorfida · Post by **Gino Iorfida** » 11 Jul 2003 7:57 am

The seller mentions that there are a lot of springs, and other 'extra' parts included. There may be enough there that one could simply add the changes necessary and be ready to go in no time. Personally, htough if it's torn donw as it is, why not take the time and clean everything up and get it back and running in top form.
Aren't a lot of the parts from BMI's interchangeable with the ZB? I think this may be one heck of a deal to the right guy. I know if I didnt just have to make a majro purchase last week, I'd consider it, since I prefer the SD10 over S10,a nd I dont play c6 soooo

... hey if an SD10 is good enough for Lloyd.....

B. Greg Jones · Post by **B. Greg Jones** » 11 Jul 2003 10:49 am

Actually guys, this guitar ain't in too bad shape. It is a shame that someone stripped the back neck off of it. As far as getting the parts, I have everything right here to do a full restoration with NOS ZB parts. It would take a bit of work to undo what has been done, but VERY possible. It would make a great guitar as either a D-10 or SD-10.

Greg

Dave Van Allen · Post by **Dave Van Allen** » 11 Jul 2003 11:01 am

greg knows whereof he speaks.

Joerg Hennig · Post by **Joerg Hennig** » 11 Jul 2003 1:47 pm

If you call that one destroyed, you should have seen the push/pull Emmons that I started with. It was all that, and more.
At least that ZB doesn´t have lots of empty holes in the underside, and apparently no major cracks on the top either.

Joe H.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 11 Jul 2003 10:47 pm

If I wanted to fix up this axe, I'd just look for another "basket case" single-neck ZB. So, you need a changer, a keyhead, and a neck, and some extra rods and hardware. Is that a big deal? Not to me, but I realize there are players out there who have very limited mechanical skill... and for them it might be an overwhelming task.

And Damir, as far as my statement about ZB's not being popular, I stand by it. Significant? Yes. But not really "popular". IMHO, 90% of their popularity is owed to a single player, Tom Brumley. Were it not for him, the guitar would have had absolutely no "claim to fame", in my thinking. They were far outsold not only by Emmons and Sho~bud, but by MSA, Fender, and Marlen, as well. In fact, there might be a good argument that they were also outsold by the lowly Harlin "Multi-Kord".

Joerg Hennig · Post by **Joerg Hennig** » 12 Jul 2003 2:19 am

Tom Brumley. Were it not for him, the guitar would have had absolutely no "claim to fame", in my thinking.

Don´t forget Jerry Garcia!

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 12 Jul 2003 6:12 am

"Not to me, but I realize there are players out there who have very limited mechanical skill... and for them it might be an overwhelming task"

Donny,there are players who may want to work on that guitar but they are already working 10-12 hours a day and they don`t have a time for that ,plus ,they may not have a shop to do it either.Second ,I agree that ZB were outsold by other guitars , Corvette is outsold by bycicles too.I don`t think that ZB as a company was ever after a big market as Emmons or Sho~Bud were.Today I would compare them to GFI ,wich are great guitars but they just dont target big market and they don`t promote their guitars as much as some other companies do (Carter,MSA..etc).We don`t know how many people played ZB`s ,we know that big names played other guitars but I can figure out some other reasons why they did (do) that.Emmons played Sierra at one point ,Lloyd played JCH and so on ,so what the BIG players play and why ,only they know that.What Tommy white plays on the opry?Emmons?Carter?MSA? Who ever pays him more that day (not that anything is wrong with that),does he own a nice ZB ...yes.

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Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 12 Jul 2003 9:24 am

there are players who may want to work on that guitar but they are already working 10-12 hours a day and they don`t have a time for that ,plus ,they may not have a shop to do it either

Damir, you don't "find the time" to do that sort of thing, you "make the time"! If restoring that axe took 80 hours (and I seriously doubt that it would), you could do it in a week, or you could do it in few months, at half an hour a day. If you really want to do it, you manage to do it...somehow.

You don't need a "shop", either. When I was working a 40-hour/week day job, playing music 5 nights a week, and working part-time a few hours a week in a radio/TV shop, I still managed to fabricate knee levers, repair guitars, and build speaker cabinets. I had no "shop", but worked on the dining-room table, the basement floor, or on the small bar in my family room...wherever there was space. (To this day, most of my small projects are still done on the kitchen or dining-room table.) When I was young and really "involved" in music, I had no fancy tools, either, like a Bridgeport or a good table saw. I used a sabre saw, a small ($79 B&D) drillpress, a hand drill, a hacksaw, and files.

Not a critique, but words of wisdom from an old man...

You'd be surprised what you can do when you really want to do it!

Of course, if you don't have the motivation and determination to do it, it's quite easy to come up with an excuse.[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 12 July 2003 at 10:28 AM.]

Dave Van Allen · Post by **Dave Van Allen** » 12 Jul 2003 11:02 am

Were it not for him, the guitar would have had absolutely no "claim to fame", in my thinking.

Donny- I get your point but here's a list of ZB'ers other than Tom Brumley (who indeed was a primary exponent of said guitars):

Norm Hamlet
Rusty Young
Julian Tharpe
& of course Jerry Garcia, who's recorded ZB is probably the most heard besides Brumley's

as far as I'm concerned ZB's "claim to fame" is their fabulous & distinct sound.

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 12 Jul 2003 11:12 am

when I get home at 7-8pm from the whole day work only thing I want is a supper and bed.And with 4 people living in the single wide mobile home I really don`t see the room for any sawing or sending.I don`t have to excuse myself to anybody for nothing ,If I was single I would maybe do that,but not now.However if that was so easy why would people take their guitars to Duane or Cass or Bobbe or etc...let`s be little realistic here ,a bit of reality with the wisdom is prety good combination.

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Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 12 Jul 2003 2:10 pm

Damir, I'm sorry I ruffled your feathers...no offense was meant. You must realize, though, your own situation, problems, and attitudes are not shared by everyone else. (But, then again, neither are mine.) I merely try to offer "the other side of the coin" to our audience.

And personally, I place the most reverence in the players themselves, not in their guitars.

Have a nice day!

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 13 Jul 2003 5:50 am

Sure Danny,my situation may not be shared by yours but it is shared by many others I believe.I`m just not a superman who can do everything on his kitchen floor I guess.Have a nice day Donny and maybe you should consider open a steel guitar shop since it is so easy to do for you ,you may make some serious cash ,and put all that other guys who invested bunch a money in their tools and shops out of business.And you could probably have three or four jobs on the side at the same time too.When I take my Sho~Bud to the Duane Marrs to rebilt it ,and pay him $1700 for it ,I sure hope he wont be working on it in his bathroom.,,

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RickRichtmyer · Post by **RickRichtmyer** » 15 Jul 2003 3:29 am

Another ZB player who had a lot of significance for me was Al Perkins.