Why buy a Mac?

[Earnest Bovine]

But no one, yet, has specifically stated why a Mac is better or worse than a PC; and viceversa.

What I mean is - specifics; average Joe terms;

Give some REAL examples. Try to keep the computerese to a minimum. Tell it in real language.

Thanks, all.

Chipper

... why do Mac users remain a small minority of the total universe of personal computer users?

If Macs are superior in so many ways, why doesn't the marque simply eclipse the PC, and become the majority machine?

I'm very, very reluctant to answer these questions here in this hotbed of Mac fanatics. But here are a couple of specifics.

1. iMovie would not import video files (*.avi) from my wife's Canon camera. I searched the web for codecs, installed several that claimed they would work but didn't, uninstalled each one (not as easy as they say), eventually found one that did allow me to import the video. It cost $25, but had a free trial. During the free trial I discovered that it imported the video, but not the audio. After 4 hours of this I gave up.
On the PC, this is a simple drag-and-drop operation, and it just works.

2. The Mac would not do live video streaming up the Phil Spector trial from ktla.com. None of the Mac experts on the Court TV message boards were able to make this one work.
On the PC, this is a one click operation, and it just works.

So I returned the Mac to the Best Buy, and got my 85% refund, lesson learned.

[Joe Butcher]

... why do Mac users remain a small minority of the total universe of personal computer users?

If Macs are superior in so many ways, why doesn't the marque simply eclipse the PC, and become the majority machine?

I'm very, very reluctant to answer these questions here in this hotbed of Mac fanatics. But here are a couple of specifics.

1. iMovie would not import video files (*.avi) from my wife's Canon camera
2. The Mac would not do live video streaming up the Phil Spector trial from ktla.com.

Ahh, I see.......you're saying that Macs arent as popular as PCs because of your wifes Canon camera and the Phil Spector trial.
Well........uhhhhh..........that certainly cleared everthing up.

[Michael Douchette]

"1. iMovie would not import video files (*.avi) from my wife's Canon camera."

iPhoto does the avi's.

"2. The Mac would not do live video streaming up the Phil Spector trial from ktla.com."

Who can blame a Mac for having taste and class?

[Cal Sharp]

No problem on a MacBookPro.

[Brad Bechtel]

When it comes down to it, it's just a tool. You don't hear of heated discussions regarding the merits of the flat head screwdriver vs. the Phillips screwdriver.

Macs are good tools for some types of applications. Windows PCs are good tools for some types of applications. Use the proper tool for the proper job.

[Earnest Bovine]

Ahh, I see.......you're saying that Macs arent as popular as PCs because of your wifes Canon camera and the Phil Spector trial.
Well........uhhhhh..........that certainly cleared everthing up.

They asked for something specific, so I mentioned those two. There were other things that didn't work right, such as WordBiz on the Java Virtual Machine. If I found these 3 deal-breakers in the first few minutes, chances are that other users have problems too, trying to do completely different things.

So yes, I think that one big reason that Macs aren't as popular as PC's is that so many things don't "just work".
But I think the main reason is still the price.
What do you think?

No problem on a MacBookPro.

Cal, what you showed is a video clip on the ktla news page. I had no problem playing stuff like that on the Mac.
The live streaming trial coverage was a different matter. On the PC, it tells the browser to call up an audio/video player such as Winamp or Windows Media Player. On the Mac, no one could make it work. All the Mac users on the Court TV message boards were pissed off. But not as pissed off as they were when the jury came back.

"1. iMovie would not import video files (*.avi) from my wife's Canon camera."

iPhoto does the avi's.

Actually, I believe that avi files are a sort of container for various audio/video file formats. I'm sure that iMovie can handle many of them without any problems.

[Jerry Gleason]

When it comes down to it, it's just a tool. You don't hear of heated discussions regarding the merits of the flat head screwdriver vs. the Phillips screwdriver.

Macs are good tools for some types of applications. Windows PCs are good tools for some types of applications. Use the proper tool for the proper job.

That, is of course, the objective and logical way to look at it. The Mac vs, PC argument goes much deeper than that, it's more about the perceived user experience. It's understandable that users get emotional about it, because the Mac is very seductive. Whether it's through clever marketing, or word of mouth evangelism, The Macintosh user is made to feel like a member of an exclusive club of people who "get it", a feeling of community connection not unlike a religious conversion for some people.

Even the packaging is done in a way that when you open it up and unpack it, you feel like you've bought a quality product, something that will set you apart from the "ordinary" folks with PC's.

On a purely objective, technical and cost comparative basis, I still think the Mac comes out ahead for the average computer user, but people with specific requirements should choose the tool that can best get the job done, just like Brad says. On that basis, the argument is unnecessary.

It's been said often, but if Mac-phobic Windows users could just use a Macintosh for a day, or better yet, for a week, they'd understand.

The new wrinkle in this old equation is this; now that Macs have Intel innards and can also run Windows, it makes sense for longtime Windows users to take a hard look at the Mac and see if the Macintosh has something to offer when shopping for a new machine.

Unless, of course, they are fervently and devoutly on the other side of this "Holy War", in which case they will never be convinced. And that's fine. In the end, it doesn't matter. People should use whatever they are comfortable with.

[Earnest Bovine]

It's been said often, but if Mac-phobic Windows users could just use a Macintosh for a day, or better yet, for a week, they'd understand.

Yes, I agree with you. After a day with it I thought I wouldn't be able to use it. But after a week, I was sure.

[Dave Potter]

Yes, I agree with you. After a day with it I thought I wouldn't be able to use it. But after a week, I was sure.

Priceless. Simply priceless.

[Joe Butcher]

Yes, I agree with you. After a day with it I thought I wouldn't be able to use it. But after a week, I was sure.

Priceless. Simply priceless.

Funny, Dave......I thought your next post wouldve been you asking that same question again. You know the one that was refuted, but you never bothered to offer a counter refutation? Actually I was hoping you would've answered my question about how you thought you could form an objective argument about something you had NO DIRECT EXPERIENCE with. That should be interesting, though not as interesting as a guy who claims to have returned a computer because he couldnt watch a streaming video clip.............if thats all it took, I wonder how fast he would be returning Windows Vista?? You know, the OS with all the driver and hardware incompatibilities??

On a different subject, I keep hearing about some guy named Buddy Emmons. Supposedly he's a great musician, although everyone I have spoken to has never even heard of the guy. I even called a few local radio stations and they hadnt heard of him either. He must not be very good becuase he's not very popular. He's nowhere near as popular as Britney Spears. Now THERES a great musician. If Britney Spears wasn't a great musician, she wouldnt have sold so many albums. Anyway I tried once to listen to that Buddy Emmons guy and it was awful.......you couldnt dance to it at all. So I returned it to Best Buy and got the new CD by 50 Cent........lesson learned!! From now on I'm stickin' with the sheeple!!! The general population always knows whats best!!!

[Joe Butcher]

But I think the main reason is still the price.
What do you think?

Well....find me a windows machine for the same price as any comparable mac..........a machine with built in cam, multi track recording, video editing, desktop sharing that allows remote control of other users desktops, as well as simultaneous watching of movie files, (iChatAV) virus free, real time video confrencing, dosent allow 3rd party apps to install stuff you didnt ask for, with the same hardware configuration as, lets say a 20" iMac.....including high end audio and video cards... dosent require "defragmenting"....and oh yeah, where you dont have to pay extra for the built-in apps like Garage Band and iMovie.........you know, the way Windows does by coming in 5 or 6 different versions, as opposed to one version of Mac OSX. Oh and one that can run Mac OSX, being that Mac OSX can run Windows.
Oh yeah, and also one that offered free in person classes on using their OS and all the apps. I guess I should also throw in one whos OS runs to its fullest capability on EVERY machine it comes on.......meaning that you dont get it home to find out that the audio dosent work becuase the OS is incompatible with the audio card, or that you cant run it's " aero glass" interface because your hardware wont support it.

And by the way, since you found all those problems in the "first few minutes" of using your Mac, did you bother to call Apple Care rather than the "mac experts" on the court TV message board ???

[Joe Butcher]

Damn, I'm tired of all this "my stuff is better'n your stuff" crap.

This actually was NEVER a "my stuff is better than yours" discussion.......it was very civil actually......even the resident Windows geniuses (Wiz and Jack) contributed to the discussion intelligently and concisely, without trying to argue or pick a fight. One of them even said they admired the Macs stability. I admire both of those guys for their expertise and intellect.

So......I still cant imagine why someone with NO EXPERIENCE using a Mac would even participate in this discussion. Seems like some people love arguing more than they love sharing information and learning.

[b0b]

Oh and one that can run Mac OSX, being that Mac OSX can run Windows.

That's not really true. The new Intel Mac hardware can run Windows instead of OS X, or you can run Windows in a virtual machine via Parallels Desktop (which is not an Apple program). In neither case is OS X actually running Windows.

Windows can run on an Intel Mac. FreeBSD, the flavor of Unix that is the basis of OS X, can run on almost any PC. But OS X can't run Windows, and Windows can't run OS X.

[Bill Terry]

I don't think there have been any REAL improvements since the Commodore 64 replaced the Vic 20.

[Jon Bergh]

Oh and one that can run Mac OSX, being that Mac OSX can run Windows.

That's not really true. The new Intel Mac hardware can run Windows instead of OS X, or you can run Windows in a virtual machine via Parallels Desktop (which is not an Apple program). In neither case is OS X actually running Windows.

(Not to argue, but just to add to the love...)

Codeweavers and the WINE project have been working on moving windows APIs, libraries, blah blah blah over to OS X (and linux).

What you theoretically get is a Windows app without the operating system (application says "give me c:" and wine in turn tells the mac "go to "... you get the idea). I dabble with it once in a while, and it keeps improving, but I wouldn't say it's perfect. Interesting at the very least.

[b0b]

(Not to argue, but just to add to the love...)

Codeweavers and the WINE project have been working on moving windows APIs, libraries, blah blah blah over to OS X (and linux).

What you theoretically get is a Windows app without the operating system (application says "give me c:" and wine in turn tells the mac "go to "... you get the idea). I dabble with it once in a while, and it keeps improving, but I wouldn't say it's perfect. Interesting at the very least.

Interesting, but a bad idea. The future belongs to portable applications, not OS emulators. I'm putting my money on Adobe AIR, a Flash-based platform for desktop applications.

As part of my day job, I maintain and enhance an application used by artists in my department. I wrote it in Java in 2001, because some artists use Windows and some use Macs. The same code runs on both platforms. When I started, Windows XP and Mac OSX didn't exist. As operating systems changed, I didn't have to make any changes to my code.

My attitude is this: whenever possible, an application should be written in portable language with a minimum of OS-specific hooks. Web-based applications that are written in PHP (like the Forum here) run on any web server, regardless of OS. The Forum server is a Mac, but it could easily be moved to a Windows, Linux, or Sun machine with no changes to the application code.

Frankly, I don't care if I can run a "Windows application" on my Mac. I want applications that run anywhere. There is virtually no difference between Firefox on Mac and Windows. Portable programs are the future.

[John Fabian]

b0b is probably correct in thinking that AIR and similar software is the wave of the future. AIR apps are totally platform independent.

In addition to Flash (ActionScript), Adobe AIR apps can also be written in FLEX or AJAX/HTML.

I saw a preview of some potential future software called THERMO at Adobe MAX 2007. It wrote a complete, complex AIR application in about 5 minutes using drag and drop objects. No code typed. The program wrote all the necessary code. Awesome, to say the least. Kind of like Dreamweaver for Actionscript and FLEX.

Thermo is an Adobe product in development that makes it easy for designers to visually create rich Internet applications. Basically, you create a comp using an Adobe CS3 product (Illustrator, Photoshop, Fireworks, and so on). Then you open Thermo, import the AI, PSD, or PNG file, and transform that artwork into a working application—without having to write a line of code. And that's not all. The application you create in Thermo can then be loaded directly into Flex Builder.

However, the day is coming when you will be able to run MAC programs and OS's on a non-apple pc.

http://money.cnn.com/2007/01/19/technol ... /index.htm

[b0b]

Thermo is HOT!

[Jon Bergh]

My attitude is this: whenever possible, an application should be written in portable language with a minimum of OS-specific hooks. Web-based applications that are written in PHP (like the Forum here) run on any web server, regardless of OS. The Forum server is a Mac, but it could easily be moved to a Windows, Linux, or Sun machine with no changes to the application code.

Frankly, I don't care if I can run a "Windows application" on my Mac. I want applications that run anywhere. There is virtually no difference between Firefox on Mac and Windows. Portable programs are the future.

Yep, I'm with you b0b... I hate perpetuating the use of poorly written anything. I'm amazed at the things that can run via a browser front end and now what looks like a "browserless" environment.

And Thermo is way cool!

[Dave Potter]

However, the day is coming when you will be able to run MAC programs and OS's on a non-apple pc.

Yeah. That's what us Windows guys have been waiting for....not.

[John Fabian]

Dave,

I can tell you that there are quite a few people who would love to be able to use Final Cut Studio but don't want to buy a Mac to use it.

[Dave Potter]

I can tell you that there are quite a few people who would love to be able to use Final Cut Studio but don't want to buy a Mac to use it.

Quite possibly so. I have everything I could ever want in Vegas Pro 8, so I'm not a candidate for Final Cut Studio.

[Randy Phelps]

dave,

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.

the cycle of life often determines that things take the trip from one end of the horse to the other. In some cases in reverse order.

[basilh]

Out of the 8% of Mac users, how many are top echelon players in the audio and visual arts production field ?
And what's the ratio in the PEE CEE world ?

[Joe Butcher]

Guys......please dont feed the troll.