Perceived Tuning Issue With Guitar Player

[Curt Trisko]

Sometimes the next time I play I realize that my third string is flat, but I never heard it the previous gig. It's because I wasn't hearing the beats, which is actually a good thing when you're performing.

You've got me really curious, Joe. What do you mean by "hearing the beats"? Doesn't sound like you're talking about anything rhythmic.

[Donny Hinson]

This short video gives an example, Curt:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCFMbh2IsPQ

Each "beat" you hear in a second equals the number of cycles or hertz of the difference between the tuning of the two strings. For example, if one string is tuned at 440 hertz, and another is at 442 hertz, you will hear two beats (or "warbles") every second.

[Joe Goldmark]

Curt, most of us tune by getting an E from a tuner (I usually get a 441.5 E, as Pete Burak mentions, which is an old Jeff Newman/Lloyd Green trick having to do with tempered tuning). Then we use our ears to tune the rest of the strings to that E. The process of doing that "eliminates the beats" between the 3rds and 4ths. The steel then sounds pretty good to us. However, it might not fit in with the band so well, especially in keys like F, etc. That's why I suggested separating from the guitarist. Of course there's other benefits from that as well (since we sit down, we sometimes get too much guitar volume if they're next to us).

However, I noticed that Paul Franklin posted. He sets up right next to my friend Andy Reiss in the Time Jumpers. I think it's fairly safe to say that at that level of musicianship, they know how to play in tune with each other, and the benefits of hearing the twin parts, etc. over ride any tuning discrepancies.

[Wayne Quinn]

Hey Donny.great demo video I never seen that one be for

[Wayne Quinn]

Hey Donny.great demo video I never seen that one be for

[Rich Upright]

Sometimes how an instrument is eqd can change its perception of in-tuneness. Too much mid-range can make it sound Out Of Tune even though it isn't same with some effects like distortion. Also playing a song in certain Keys like flat or sharp keys can make it sound Out Of Tune even though it isn't. When playing Steel in the key of E for instance, there is a very odd vibration that I get at the 12th fret which has occurred on every steel I've ever owned.
The statements about the ceiling fan is true, too. I used to play a big dance hall in New Jersey that had the refrigeration compressor under the stage. When it kicked on everything seemed to go out of tune almost a quarter tone, and my pedal boxes would start vibrating across the floor.

[Jim Sliff]

I'd like to return to one of the first comments you made:

But. when I play I feel there is no exact "center" in a note or chord, or more exactly, his chords have no center. Sorry if this sounds odd.

From the description, this does not sound like a vibrato issue - it sounds more like a style conflict, where he may be playing the Tele one way (more focused on root and triad chord tones - and scale notes - which with the Duesenberg he's playing extended notes and dropping the root & third

It's often a good way to play as it keeps the player out of the way of everyone else playing thew same note - but if you focus on *his* playing it can sound "unfocused".

This may not be the situation at all, but I just an't imagine a guitar player playing with a vibrato arm almost constantly in motion. As Paul noted, I've found "Doozys" to be very stable instruments, so it would be unlikely that he's getting thrown out of tune by the vibrato mechanism; and having chords sound like there's "no center" wouldn't be a tuning or setup situation at all.

So - was that phrase just a mistaken description of the problem? I'm asking because following posts jumped on tuning and setup issues, and I just wanted to make absolutely sure we weren't misinterpreting what you were describing.