Just my 2 cents worth.
How can a drummer play behind the beat?
he IS THE BEAT.
Now I'm fully aware a drummer can drag, or rush either way.
But to me its the Bass player playing behind the beat that will drag a drummer down.
Over my 50 some years of playing I've played with a bunch of bass players that played behind the beat of the drummer, and it takes a very good drummer to be able to maintain the beat.
Like I said, just my 2 cents worth.
Playing behind the beat is not the same thing as dragging or slowing the tempo down. And playing on top of the beat is not the same thing as rushing or speeding up the tempo. A song can have a steady tempo and have a slow heavy feel or a bright up feel. That difference is what I'm talking about.
There are lots of videos and articles on line by drummers about the subject. Many of them seem to endorse playing behind the beat as the best all around approach, but they are often coming from the rock genre.
Listen to Merle Haggard's original recording of Mama Tried. Biff Adams (the drummer) is playing on top of the beat and the song really moves along, without rushing. That's the feel that I'm missing.
I reluctantly tend to agree with Bob Hoffnar, complaining doesn't seem to work.
Paul Sutherland wrote:I reluctantly tend to agree with Bob Hoffnar, complaining doesn't seem to work.
I’ll concur with that too, if “complaining” means offering a suggestion to try something that you know the player is not capable of doing. Eventually the player’s limitations are revealed, and you learn what is worth asking for and what isn’t. There is little hope for a drummer who can’t find a pocket and stay in it, or equally offensive, refuses to learn a song the way the rest of us do.
Bob Hoffnar wrote:In my experience it is best to keep quiet about other musicians faults while playing with them. It just causes tension. If a drummer doesn’t know how to control his feel or tempo it’s pretty hopeless. What I do is practice more and try to move up the food chain where the good drummers live.
I agree with every sentence. In my opinion, this is the best way to handle this situation. Some people are just hard-wired to think a certain way. You won't change them.
Paul Sutherland wrote:Listen to Merle Haggard's original recording of Mama Tried. Biff Adams (the drummer) is playing on top of the beat and the song really moves along, without rushing. That's the feel that I'm missing.
Or “The Firemanâ€. How many cover bands have destroyed that tune? Every one that I’ve ever been in. Because it’s simple, players think they can disrespect it and ignore what made it a hit.
Lately most of my gigs have been as a bass player, which is actually getting back to where I started almost 60 years ago. For me, I'd almost rather nudge a dragging drummer along than try to hold one back. Excitable drummers who don't realize that the rest of us have been playing with metronomes or BIAB etc. for years now, drive me the most crazy. Like Skip mentioned, being able to keep the groove when changing from side stick to full on, and back, is the true test. I've been lucky with drummers overall. I haven't had to fire any lately for playing the Hawaii 5-0 lick more than once a year.
It’s unlikely you’ll be able to “ school up “ the drummer by speaking with him. If he hasn’t learned it by now, it’s not going to change any time soon.
If you can’t replace him , make a decision. You either enjoy playing enough to keep working with him , or you don’t.
For me, the pay is only one factor. Who I get to play with determines how musical the job will ultimately be. That’s become a major reason I decline work with one particular act. I know it won’t be musically rewarding, and I’ll regret taking the work, so I’ve made a decision to decline. It’s a bit awkward, but if the band leader ever pressed me for a reason, Id have no problem diplomatically explaining why I’m never available for him.
We have a girl drummer. Anything we want or need to change shes a team player and does it and never gets upset. Shes always right on beat and just a pleasure to work with.
I’m often a sideman, not a band member, (which I prefer). That means I don’t always get a say in who the other players are. Sometimes a pleasant surprise, Sometimes not.
As a hired sideman, I’d expect possible push back if I suggested A band member to do something differently.
As a band member, you have a bit more of a foundation to communicate suggestions, assuming you choose to do so.
I've played with drummers who seem to speed up a bit after every fill, like they are very excitable. I'll take a steady behind the beat player over that any day.
MOST of the bands I play with are flexible enough that if the drummer hits the beat differently, we adapt that feel. Changes the songs up a bit sometimes, gives them a different groove. Personally, I find that refreshing & challenging.
One band I was in had a sub drummer one night. He played things a bit differently. The feel on some of the songs was altered a bit, but the band always caught on quickly and adjusted. The only member of the band who found it a little challenging was the singer, who was the least experienced of the band members.
