Message from b0b - Please read

Niels Andrews · Post by **Niels Andrews** » 25 Mar 2018 11:49 am

One just has to keep in mind that in society there are a lot of miserable people, but too offset it there are a lot of great people. I would have given up a long time ago with the Pedal Steel if it wasn't for one man I met on the forumn. He went the extra mile to help me, that was Reece Anderson.
So I urge the "newbies for lack of a better term, just keep in mind the better players are not the ones making comments that might ruffle your feathers. All the great players I have interfaced with, are the ones that were the most positive and helpful.
One good piece of advice is use the google search here on your question and there is more information on most subjects than you care to know.

Ian Worley · Post by **Ian Worley** » 25 Mar 2018 12:01 pm

A lot of excellent and varied points here, which serves to illustrate a larger point, that there is no "right" answer when it comes to communication protocols across such a large population as here on the SGF. Individual gripes vary widely.

The applicability of Sturgeon's Law aside for a moment, there are so many different opinions and worldviews here that are informed by countless regional/cultural/educational/political/language/age/experience related factors that I think we just have to accept there will be misunderstandings and miscommunication. Communication embodies a vast gray area in the middle ground.

b0b's original point -- essentially the importance just being nice to one another -- is important. It's also important to consider that this is a two-way street, communication is not just the speaking, but the listening too.

To me it is important that we all be ourselves and speak with our own individual voices. Be respectful of others when offering our opinions and advice, but be yourself, and listen to what others have to say with the same respect. Yes, it's kind of hard to do sometimes (apply Sturgeon's Law freely here). No matter what there will always be someone who is unhappy about something.

And just as out in the real world, some folks are just jackasses and will always be, no matter what. They're just being themselves.

Kevin Fix · Post by **Kevin Fix** » 25 Mar 2018 2:13 pm

I've been a member here for many years. I have never had a negative experience with anyone. A whole lot of great people and knowledge. I do like the humor. Makes it fun. I always will contribute to anyone starting out. I wish this was around 40 years ago when I was getting started!!!!! And for b0b, you are doing a superb job. Many thanks to you for making this possibly.

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 25 Mar 2018 2:18 pm

I previously thought Sturgeon's law was 'ninethy percent of everything is carp,' but I'm glad that's cleared up.

Now that's probably an example of an off-topic or possible in-joke. I try to think, what would b0b do?

Jim Hoock · Post by **Jim Hoock** » 25 Mar 2018 6:17 pm

bOb, there is not a single time that I have logged on to the SGF Forum and not been thankful for what you do. I am sorry that this topic has caused you any more than one second of grief.

The thin skinned should not be your concern.

Joseph Napolitano · Post by **Joseph Napolitano** » 25 Mar 2018 6:20 pm

I don't post much. As part of my quest to learn as much as possible, as fast as possible, I have read the Forum for at least a few minutes most nights, for over the past five years. When I do post, I try not to offend anyone( which is probably why my rare posts are boring and humorless ). I must say I am surprised at how easily some people ( yes, often new players) get their pantyhose all twisted up in knots!Some people are just way too sensitive and need to toughen up a bit. The world ain't gonna change , so they should.

Skip Edwards · Post by **Skip Edwards** » 25 Mar 2018 8:32 pm

Well, yeah, sure... people should be civil to each other and we should encourage new players... all that goes without saying.
What needs to be acknowledged is a tip of the hat to b0b... he's changed our world and changed it for the better. This Forum has done as much, if not more, than anything out there to promote steel guitar.
Thanks for all you do, b0b.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 26 Mar 2018 3:36 am

Niels Andrews wrote:One just has to keep in mind that in society there are a lot of miserable people.

Can we get an AMEN ?

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 26 Mar 2018 5:11 am

I think a simple idea like encouraging people to post only about things they have had direct personal experience with would clear up quite a bit of useless clutter. And make it clear that the information is only coming from a personal perspective.

Iâ€™m not sure what to do with people getting offended. I have recently replied to a few people on Facebook and the forum about what they should buy so they could sound good when the problem was most likely there technique. When the posters replied and took the time to get in touch we worked it out. After a skype conversation It turns out one guy in the UK really needed a different pickup and one woman learned how to control her tone with her hands. One guy on the forum just got upset and deleted his posts.

People also get upset if you donâ€™t like the type of steel they play. I think old MSA guitars donâ€™t sound good and can explain why I donâ€™t like them. Am I only supposed to say everything sounds great ? There are players that love there old MSA steels and there opinion is just as valid as mine if they have played one. If they are just posting opinions about what they think other players think that they saw on YouTube then there opinions lead to only conflict and confusion.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 26 Mar 2018 5:27 am

Maybe a currated section for newbies that addresses common guestions and misunderstandings would help. No direct replies or questions.

Fred Treece · Post by **Fred Treece** » 26 Mar 2018 10:20 am

Bob Hoffnar wrote:Maybe a currated section for newbies that addresses common guestions and misunderstandings would help. No direct replies or questions.

Good idea. “Newbie FAQ”.

Paul Stauskas · Post by **Paul Stauskas** » 26 Mar 2018 10:39 am

Part of the fun for me has been wading through pages upon pages of posts to find out who is giving good or bad information. Like most, I have my set of favorite and least favorite posters. With any community, there is going to be a lot of misinformation out there and it takes some effort to separate the corn from the chaff.

Larry Bressington · Post by **Larry Bressington** » 26 Mar 2018 1:34 pm

This is an online forum not professional steel guitar lessons...Who becomes qualified and who gets disqualified? Whoâ€™s an expert and whoâ€™s not? Free advice does not guarantee expert advise. Youâ€™re going to get different answers, everybody has their own fingerprint in life and music ðŸŽµ whoâ€™s wrong and whoâ€™s right is going to make bobâ€™s day very long.

I like Bob Hoffnar idea of a FAQ section that can slowly be built upon.

Dan Robinson · Post by **Dan Robinson** » 26 Mar 2018 3:50 pm

b0b is an amazing skipper who navigates with wisdom, and keeps the ship on course without being heavy-handed. It's fair for him to mention the need for decorum.

Overall the membership is incredibly helpful. Yes, someone can ask "one of those questions" and get a terse reply. There's a time to say "be nice," just as there is a time to say "grow up." Rules to guarantee no one ever gets offended would suck the life out of the forum (and any other human endeavor).

One late forum member (RIP) posted frequently, he was colorful, had an acerbic sense of humor, spoke his mind. He knew his stuff, went out of his way to help a lot of people, and was generous to the end. He rubbed some folks the wrong way. But we are richer for the fact that he was genuine. This forum is the best gathering place on the net BECAUSE of, not in spite of the authenticity of the members. We dont want to lose that.

Don R Brown · Post by **Don R Brown** » 26 Mar 2018 5:03 pm

Dan Robinson wrote:
One late forum member (RIP) posted frequently, he was colorful, had an acerbic sense of humor, spoke his mind. He knew his stuff, went out of his way to help a lot of people, and was generous to the end. He rubbed some folks the wrong way. But we are richer for the fact that he was genuine. This forum is the best gathering place on the net BECAUSE of, not in spite of the authenticity of the members. We dont want to lose that.

He never bothered me a bit, I'm on a car forum where about 50% of the members have that same demeanor. His insight and opinions made the forum fun and interesting. It still is, altho just a slight bit less since his passing.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 26 Mar 2018 5:07 pm

Bob Hoffnar wrote: People also get upset if you donâ€™t like the type of steel they play. I think old MSA guitars donâ€™t sound good and can explain why I donâ€™t like them. Am I only supposed to say everything sounds great ?

Uh, no...but then again, it gets very tedious when certain players are constantly pushing everyone to play what they play, use what they use, and like what they like. That's called snobbery. You don't see Lloyd on here every day telling people to buy an old Sho~Bud, or Paul bragging in every post about his Franklin, do you?

Steve Spitz · Post by **Steve Spitz** » 26 Mar 2018 5:16 pm

Read the last line of b0bs post. It’s not an unreasonable request.

I read this forum to learn from more experienced players. I see an occasional trend where players of moderate experience run off off some top notch players. That’s a real downer.

I post when I think I have something helpful to add, but its mostly from my own limited experience. I hope it helps a new player, but I don’t think I’m the forum know it all.

Lots of great, knowledgeable posters here, and I value their posts. Thank you.

Let’s keep it civil, and not do anything to discourage anyone from participating.

Larry Carlson · Post by **Larry Carlson** » 26 Mar 2018 5:58 pm

^^^^^^^^ What Steve said.

Chris Walke · Post by **Chris Walke** » 27 Mar 2018 6:13 am

Re: repeated questions & search function...

Sometimes someone new to steel guitar doesn't know WHAT to search (what term, which section of forum), or doesn't know it's a common question. Let's give them a break and if we remember a thread that pertains to the question, part of our helpfulness could be finding that thread and linking it for them. Many do this already. I'm sure it is immensely helpful - much more so than typing "already covered, use the search feature" in response.

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 27 Mar 2018 7:38 am

I don't know for certain who the late member Dan and Don are referring too but I may have an idea.

If I'm right then I wholeheartedly agree.

Christopher Woitach · Post by **Christopher Woitach** » 27 Mar 2018 7:52 am

8 years ago, I joined the Forum, after purchasing my first pedal steel on a whim, which turned into an obsession.

I posted:

Hi, Iâ€™m new, been playing jazz guitar for 30 years, etc
Do I really need to use picks?
What is this Universal thing Iâ€™ve read about?
Well, hereâ€™s my first attempt - be kind....

Sound familiar?

The replies to my post led to:

Jack Schults introducing me to my mentor, Maurice Anderson (which led to a deep friendship with David Wright)
A phone call from Pete Burak that started a great friendship
Paul Franklin posting a video of me playing solo jazz guitar
Jim Cohen sending me to the jazz steel site
So much more...

In another organization I belong to, we say â€œwelcome to the newcomer - you are the most important person hereâ€ - when I see the posts weâ€™ve all seen 1000 times, Iâ€™m reminded of the warmth and fellowship of the steel guitar community, which is waaaaaay different than the guitar world.

I remember the feeling of posting and wondering if anyone would reply, wanting to belong to the club as much as anything...

My point?

For what itâ€™s worth - I think we should leave things as they are, and encourage the newcomers to ask the same questions over and over again, and each time we see them remember that the connection to the group is a huge part of the motivation of a newcomers post, in addition to the requested and much needed information.

A search function canâ€™t say - â€œwelcome - we all have been there, keep practicing, youâ€™ll get thereâ€

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 27 Mar 2018 8:07 am

That's a very good point, Christopher. Asking questions creates personal relationships. Reading canned answers to common questions does not. Asking questions brings you into the community. You're not on the outside looking in - you have entered the room "where steel players meet online". That's our tag line and our mission here.

David Cubbedge · Post by **David Cubbedge** » 27 Mar 2018 8:40 am

Forums require we think a little before posting. At least that what I try to do.

This internet place is just wonderful to me! I wish I would have had this when I started playing in the mid-70s! I found my Emmons D10 here and have had just about every question answered. I always go to 'search' first before posting and have had good results there.

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 27 Mar 2018 8:54 am

Life (and I don't just mean the Forum) would be a lot easier if when people claimed the right of free speech they also took on the responsibility of exercising it wisely.

As for the newcomer being the most important person in the room, that's true although in this case we're not trying to give something up - but we do admit we're addicted

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 27 Mar 2018 9:25 am

I previously thought Sturgeon's law was 'ninethy percent of everything is carp

Do I detect a pun there, Charlie?

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