Jerry Garcia and Buddy Cage Face Off

Jerry Horch · Post by **Jerry Horch** » 10 Jan 2017 11:44 am

2 different styles...cant't really draw a comparison .

Jim Robbins · Post by **Jim Robbins** » 10 Jan 2017 8:16 pm

Jamie Mitchell wrote:
b0b wrote: I always thought Candy Man was a Mutron driven by the volume pedal, followed by a Leslie: https://youtu.be/MEFPOqEmxHU?t=3m9s
American Beauty was 1970, MuTron didn't come out til 72.
interesting tone, though...

Maybe a wah into Leslie? Like the wah/distortion on NRPS 'Dirty business'; JG had a subtle touch. The attacks sound too variable for an envelope follower.

David Cubbedge · Post by **David Cubbedge** » 12 Jan 2017 9:07 am

Regarding Jerry, the MuTron and PSG, I agree - Jerry didn't have the device until after he set the PSG aside, but I have played my PSG with the Auto-Wah effect from my Pod XT - same thing. It is......different!

scott murray · Post by **scott murray** » 12 Jan 2017 12:14 pm

so in the case of Sugar Magnolia, Candyman and others, Jerry was just using a wah pedal in a stationary position. correct?

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 12 Jan 2017 4:42 pm

scott murray wrote:so in the case of Sugar Magnolia, Candyman and others, Jerry was just using a wah pedal in a stationary position. correct?

Jerry used an envelope follower , not sure of brand, for years, but as has been pointed out. Sugar Mag, etc was pretty early, and at that time, he may just have been using a plain old wah pedal... bob

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 12 Jan 2017 4:59 pm

Jim Cohen wrote:Did Buddy play standard guitar?

Sorry Jim about taking so long to reply to this, which you wrote after my comment: I wonder if later that day Jerry and Buddy were jamming on standard guitar and how that went?

To alleviate any confusion, I have no idea if Buddy Cage has ever played standard guitar.

My point was that over the years on the forum, Garcia receives credit for example on the iconic steel intro on "Teach" but it is often with kind of an unwritten asterisk (*) attached. A somewhat myopic view in concentrating only his steel playing. But then, this is after all The Steel Guitar Forum, so sure, I get it.

*"Well, you know - the song was a big success and all, but after all, that was pretty simple stuff...blah, blah, blah."

It's as if some of the compliments of Jerry's steel playing have to be accompanied with sort of an apology.

As this thread has gone on a few folks have mentioned it, but what is often left out of "Garcia Threads" is what a great guitar player he was.

If the whole Grateful Dead thing didn't evolve and succeed the way it did with all the experimental jamming and "meandering" on stage and the band had broken up decades ago, Garcia could have been a heck of a session player. That is, if he would have had the temperament to spend long hours in the studio and having to listen to and "obey" producers. I think of his lead work in the studio on the Bruce Hornsby hit song "Across the River." Beautiful stuff.

Jim Fogarty · Post by **Jim Fogarty** » 12 Jan 2017 8:22 pm

b0b wrote:
Bob Carlucci wrote:Jerry was very fond of using an envelope filter on both guitar and pedal steel.... bob

Jamie Mitchell wrote: i don't think he ever used the MuTron on steel...
any examples?
I always thought Candy Man was a Mutron driven by the volume pedal, followed by a Leslie: https://youtu.be/MEFPOqEmxHU?t=3m9s

I'm hearing a wah pedal (more subtle than a Mu-Tron, which came later anyway) and a Leslie.....slow speed up front which gives it a bit of a Phase 90 sound, then ramped up as the tune progresses.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 12 Jan 2017 9:03 pm

Mark Eaton wrote:

My point was that over the years on the forum, Garcia receives credit for example on the iconic steel intro on "Teach" but it is often with kind of an unwritten asterisk (*) attached. A somewhat myopic view in concentrating only his steel playing. But then, this is after all The Steel Guitar Forum, so sure, I get it.

*"Well, you know - the song was a big success and all, but after all, that was pretty simple stuff...blah, blah, blah."

It's as if some of the compliments of Jerry's steel playing have to be accompanied with sort of an apology.

As this thread has gone on a few folks have mentioned it, but what is often left out of "Garcia Threads" is what a great guitar player he was.

Heh. In my opinion, almost every thing Jerry ever played was dead simple. Kinda like The Hag. The musicality exceeded the virtuosity level. But it was the right thing to play there.

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 12 Jan 2017 9:33 pm

For some people (no present company intended), greatness and simplicity are mutually exclusive. I feel sorry for those people.

My personal opinion is that Jerry Garcia was neither a great guitarist nor a great steel player, but sometimes (often) a great musician, with songwriting (composing), and/or guitar playing, and/or steel playing as his medium.

Frank Freniere · Post by **Frank Freniere** » 13 Jan 2017 5:37 am

Brint Hannay wrote:For some people (no present company intended), greatness and simplicity are mutually exclusive. I feel sorry for those people.

My personal opinion is that Jerry Garcia was neither a great guitarist nor a great steel player, but sometimes (often) a great musician, with songwriting (composing), and/or guitar playing, and/or steel playing as his medium.

+1

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 13 Jan 2017 2:29 pm

Which is what I was trying to say.. See also Sweets Edison.

scott murray · Post by **scott murray** » 14 Jan 2017 4:25 pm

I put this poster up on facebook today advertising my GD cover band and was unfriended by a steel player whom I admire very much

no disrespect intended, I just like to include Buddy Emmons whenever possible

what do y'all think?

Rich Upright · Post by **Rich Upright** » 15 Jan 2017 6:13 pm

Jerry's steel playing reminds me of a cool mountain spring on a frosty morning. It was simple, yet fit perfectly every place that it was featured. Kinda like Ringo's drumming.
No steeler in the world coulda done better with "Teach", "Last Lonely Eagle", or "Dire Wolf". Fancier maybe, but NOT better.

Joseph Napolitano · Post by **Joseph Napolitano** » 15 Jan 2017 7:01 pm

Listen to "Help On The Way" . Only a great guitar player could think up this stuff and execute it.

Drew Pierce · Post by **Drew Pierce** » 16 Jan 2017 6:44 pm

As I recall, in his book "Waging Heavy Peace - A Hippy Dream", Neil Young suggests Gerry played the steel part on "Teach" on a 6-string guitar on his lap using a pocket knife for a slide. Obviously not correct.

Joachim Kettner · Post by **Joachim Kettner** » 17 Jan 2017 3:57 am

Which is strange. According to a story in "Hickory Wind" Neil Young sat behind Neil Flanz' steel and played. This was after a Gram Parsons gig.

Bud Angelotti · Post by **Bud Angelotti** » 17 Jan 2017 8:42 am

If you look at the original Atlantic records fold open/inner gatefold DejaVu record album which would open to show pictures and some credits, and look around because it's really small, you will see two very small photos of Jerry Garcia and John Sebastian. You will also see written credits for John Sebastian, harmonica on "DejaVu" and Jerry Garcia, pedal steel on "Helpless" and "Teach Your Children".
I was looking for a shot of the gatefold and found this page relating to the front cover of this masterpiece. A little over the top but hey, we all have our 'things".

Personally, I miss album cover art. >>

http://www.popspotsnyc.com/deja_vu/

Isn't this in your neck of the woods bOb?

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 17 Jan 2017 9:13 am

Novato is a rich suburb of San Francisco, Bud, about 60 miles south of Cloverdale.

I prefer LPs too, for the liner notes and for the large format album art. And of course, for the sound.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 17 Jan 2017 9:18 am

Bud, that's a cool link. Fun to see.

Jim Robbins · Post by **Jim Robbins** » 18 Jan 2017 7:40 am

Joseph Napolitano wrote:Listen to "Help On The Way" . Only a great guitar player could think up this stuff and execute it.

"Help on the way" / "Slipknot" was my gateway drug to the Grateful Dead. Very accomplished stuff.

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 18 Jan 2017 9:01 am

Jim Robbins wrote:
Joseph Napolitano wrote:Listen to "Help On The Way" . Only a great guitar player could think up this stuff and execute it.
"Help on the way" / "Slipknot" was my gateway drug to the Grateful Dead. Very accomplished stuff.

I have a 4-part lesson series on this tune on YouTube:
Part1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB7Qttuf9sw

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 18 Jan 2017 10:00 am

Pete Burak wrote:
Jim Robbins wrote:
Joseph Napolitano wrote:Listen to "Help On The Way" . Only a great guitar player could think up this stuff and execute it.
"Help on the way" / "Slipknot" was my gateway drug to the Grateful Dead. Very accomplished stuff.
I have a 4-part lesson series on this tune on YouTube:
Part1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB7Qttuf9sw

Pete, that was great! Thanks for sharing. Maybe the best Garcia instructional videos I have ever seen. And I love that Strat.

I'm a middle-of-the-road guitar player at best. And I don't know about anybody else - but in viewing Pete's videos of breaking down Garcia's approach to Help/Slipknot struck me as anything but "simple."

If that's simple stuff to other viewers, my hat's off to you - you're a hundred times the guitar player than I'll ever be.

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 18 Jan 2017 11:51 am

Thanks for liking that lesson, Mark!
What I was trying to convey at the beginning was, the verses themselves are basically a simple, three chord blues progression (akin to "The Thrill Is Gone"), and that part of the song needs to be the least of your worries as we go forward into this mutha!

I always presumed I could never play this song, until the Dec 2005 issue of Guitar Player had a piece on this song (tab), and I deciphered the rest from the album, and also found tabs online that filled in some spots.

There are vids for several other Dead songs on my SteelYerFace page, too.
Mainly decipherd so guys like us can enjoy playing them. Not meant to be note-for-note exactly as Jerry played it, but pretty close (I kinda went oveboard on Help->Slip).

Let me know if you ever need a Jerry guy

scott murray · Post by **scott murray** » 18 Jan 2017 2:55 pm

great stuff Pete!
our band recently decided to add Help/Slip to the setlist and your video was a great reference. I had no idea it was you.

Slipknot, like a lot of Garcia's guitar work, lays out really well on the E9 tuning and we've been having fun adding steel to this and a bunch of other Dead/JGB tunes that never had it (but could/should have!)

as for GD vids, I'm responsible for this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwbLZHIAbKk

Jim Robbins · Post by **Jim Robbins** » 18 Jan 2017 3:58 pm

Pete Burak wrote:
Jim Robbins wrote:
Joseph Napolitano wrote:Listen to "Help On The Way" . Only a great guitar player could think up this stuff and execute it.
"Help on the way" / "Slipknot" was my gateway drug to the Grateful Dead. Very accomplished stuff.
I have a 4-part lesson series on this tune on YouTube:
Part1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB7Qttuf9sw

Nice playing, lifting and teaching, you even did the Am part -- I never got that far (or if I did I don't remember, it was many years ago) -- although I did learn that lick starting at 2:13 which remains a favourite go-to to this day and is just brilliant in a quick shift out of the spacey Am stuff to a kind of old-time chromaticism.