Just some thoughts

[Bobby Hearn]

Jim Bob you're speaking my language!

[Dave Hopping]

I'm by no means a schooled musician,but I was lucky enough to be bandmates with one off and on(mostly on) over a 15 year period.I became a better player because of that experience,and if I had it to do all over again I'd have gotten as much formal musical education as I could.

I'm not aware of steel players being called upon very often to sight-read notation,but if steel comes into more general use we might see it-when Chuck Berry was on the charts there were no transcriptions of his solos,but there are now six-stringers reading the charts to "Tommy" in pit orchestras for that play.

[David Mitchell]

There is two types of musicians that I learned about engineering/producing in Dallas/Ft. Worth recording studios for 42 years recording famous steel players and some not very famous. Almost all of them were very good players. The type I classify as a "Player" can copy another players work to a T. They can run scales play huge chords, read charts and are really impressive, musical parrots basically. Then there is the "Artist". This player can do all of the above if you ask them too but they prefer to play like no one else. When they play a part everyone has a big smile on their face because they know musical history is going down. I always enjoyed Tom Morrell on sessions. He was a genuine genius on whatever you wanted to do. One time I was producing an album for Joe Paul Nichols and I had previously engineered the demo with Gary Carpenter playing steel. After 10 years of listening to the demo I decided that what Gary played is the way it should be but on this session I had called Morrell. I played the demo over the studio speakers while Morrell read the newspaper. When it was finished I asked him if he needed to hear it again because it didn'T look like he was paying attention. He said no, is that what you want? I said yes and he kicked it off and played it exactly carbon copy of what Gary played. I thought this guy really is the genius that Tommy Allsup was telling me about. All other times I leT Tom do his thing. All good. These real steel guitar Artist are few and fAR between however.

[Chris Brooks]

<spend most of your time learning scales and chord positions and whatever else there is to learn about playing a song will teach you about scales and chords but where is the song

The song is made up of those scales and chords.

Chris

[Erv Niehaus]

It is a treat to play with a musician who understands music, chords and all. My guitar buddy and myself furnished all the music for a wedding a while back. There were three of us when we started out practicing but our bass player chickened out because he couldn't pick up the music by ear. It's not everyday you play the "Wedding March" and the "Bridal Chorus".

[Charlie McDonald]

Yeah, Wagner is tough.

[Ian Rae]

If it was easy everyone would do it!

String theory

I played bass professionally for many years and I am pleased to announce that as far as technique is concerned, it's been no help at all! But it does mean that I have a practical knowledge of chord changes. Steve's horn playing probably doesn't help him much, but my secret weapon in the struggle is the trombone - I already have a servo loop in place between the bar and my ears, so at least all my mistakes are in tune

[David Mason]

A fairly large percentage of music I like involves adaptations and emulation from one instrument to another, and most of the people who's opinions I respect (because they can play their ass off) emphasize learning things from sources other than players of their primary instrument, at least as part of their past process. In the above stated model of "learning things right" this whole concept of adaptation is wrong, therefore it couldn't happen... have you NEVER heard a steel melody line with "vocal-like" phrasing, or a slide guitarist clearly emulating saxophone tone? Mustn't get any "funny ideas".... However, as long as you're writing this we can assume your boat's afloat, which is still the main point.

[Jim Park]

An interesting study is the song by Buddy Emmons, My Weakness is too Strong. Both Buddy and John Hughey did this tune...... But John put his own touch on the song....and both versions are really stellar, but very different in the way the song is played.

[Ian Rae]

Wagner is tough.

Can anyone recall who famously said that "Wagner's music is better than it sounds"?

[Barry Blackwood]

Can anyone recall who famously said that "Wagner's music is better than it sounds"?

Mark Twain

[Ian Rae]

Thank you, Barry - it was bugging me

[Donny Hinson]

Music is a language

Speaking is key - playing a song to apply your grammar

Understanding/reading - understanding music makes what you say not only meaningful but now you know how to apply it in many different contexts.

I might agree with that if it were not for the many great singers and players who knew very little about theory, and nothing about reading music. The same applies to speaking - you don't have to know the rules of grammar to carry on a good and interesting conversation. While it might be nice if everyone knew theory back and forth, and could sight-read and play like a concert musician, to say that this would help everyone is simply not true. Some players just get bogged down and discouraged following that advice. Music is not a science, it's an art form, and there are no absolutes.

Do what you want to do, and learn what you want to learn, but never be so smug as to suggest that everyone must or even should follow the same path.

[James Jacoby]

the ones we (often belatedly) admire the most and try to imitate (often pitifully). They connect human emotion directly to sound.

Truer words were never spoken! A song played perfectly, but devoid of emotion, is just a tune. The emotion, combined with the song, is what makes it sound so exciting! I started learning PSG, fairly late, in life, so I chose to work on the emotional side of the music, rather than learning theory, learning tab, etc. I'm glad I did, because sounding good is my goal, rather than being able to explain how I did a lick, or a chord. I find, I'm getting better, much quicker, that way. I do agree, that connecting human emotion, directly to sound(in this case steel guitar sound)is IMHO the most important part of playing any instrument, or even performing vocals, because we all want the people in our audiences, to love what we play, don't we? -Jake- (and impressing our musician buddies is fun too, isn't it?)

[James Jacoby]

An interesting study is the song by Buddy Emmons, My Weakness is too Strong. Both Buddy and John Hughey did this tune...... But John put his own touch on the song....and both versions are really stellar, but very different in the way the song is played.

A band I play lead guitar in, does the Hughey, version,which I prefer, over Buddy's rendering . The key change for the bridge, is in MHO, a work of genius, but despite that, I was easily able to learn the chord pattern, without the aid of tab--just by ear. I've always been able to figure out, chord patterns, just by ear, since I was a kid.I think,that's, one of the things, that enabled me to bypass theory, and tab, when learning steel. -Jake-

[b0b]

Chord patterns and key changes are music theory, Jake. You didn't bypass nothing.

[James Jacoby]

Chord patterns and key changes are music theory, Jake. You didn't bypass nothing.

You mean, I actually knew what I was doing---and didn't know it??

[Christopher Woitach]

Since I learned to read, write, and comprehend music thoroughly, I am far better at playing by ear than I was before I learned. Good luck hearing the substitute changes to All the Things You Are that the piano player is using if you don't have a pretty deep understanding of music.

I couldn't care less if other musicians understand theory and read music well - that's their business - but when players willfully ignore or, worse, disparage knowledge of music, they are doing a disservice to their craft and limiting their musical growth. Again, their business, and I have played with many great players who don't read or understand much theory and will happily do so again, but it's interesting that a large percentage of them say to me "I wish I had your musical knowledge". Not one has ever said that my playing is any less real or soulful because I know too much.

I also think Bob just made a great point - many you know a lot more theory than you think you do.

[Sandy Inglis]

I agree with bOb, in that I discovered later in life that I did know my music theory, but I can't sight read.
I feel I have a good balance of theory and 'feel'.
I know many musicians who are musically clever, but have no 'feel' (or emotion)in their playing. I also feel I have a good 'ear' and can play by ear when the theory fails me!
When I started learning the PSG, I had to play 'by the seat of my pants' and so my earlier experiences paid off (basically I could bluff my way through a song).
Sandy

[Christopher Woitach]

I think it's extremely difficult, close to impossible, to be a great sight reader of musical notation on steel - it's hard enough to do it on standard guitar, and steel just has too many variables, including the need to look at your bar hand (yes, there are some who play without looking - very rare).

If a musician is literate but has no feel or emotion, it's not the literacy that's the problem, it's their musicality. Being literate doesn't hurt anyone's playing, but being unmusical certainly does. I've known several "ear" players who are unmusical, as well. The two things are separate issues that seem to get confused, somehow

[Donny Hinson]

I couldn't care less if other musicians understand theory and read music well - that's their business - but when players willfully ignore or, worse, disparage knowledge of music, they are doing a disservice to their craft and limiting their musical growth.

Wrong, Chris. I think it's you who are disparaging others for not having your curiosity or knowledge, or for not wanting to learn what you yourself have learned. People have been making music since time immemorial, even before there was a written language. Sure, it may have been simple and basic compared to other, later music, but they were happy doing it, and that's key. Why is someone doing exactly what they want, and suggesting it's okay for others do the same, a disservice to their "craft"??? What they do is their craft, after all, not yours. A lot of artists resisted musical growth and change, and thereby remained icons by doing what they wanted. I say "good for them".

I'm reminded of an old story about Hank Williams Sr., who once had a player in the backing band who put some passing (minor) chords in "Cold, Cold Heart". Hank quickly admonished the guy by telling him..."I wrote the damn song, and there ain't no minors in it!"

Peace

[Christopher Woitach]

I'm sorry you read it that way - by no means do I think everyone needs to know or care about the same things I do. As I said, I play and will continue to play with musicians who read, don't read, know theory, don't know theory - as long as they are musical it's fine with me. I do not in any way mean to disparage or disrespect any musicians for the way go about making their music, it's not up to me to decide how anyone makes their music.

What I do object to is the misconception that somehow knowing about music is harmful to ones playing, usually based on having played with an unmusical player who knew how to read. I think knowledge and musicality are 2 separate issues.

I hope that's clear. I don't believe my posts here were disparaging anyone, but if they were, it was my lack of clarity, not my intention

[Robert Parent]

I played for many years by ear, tab, leaning things off records, and playing with anyone that would let me on stage. After about 15 years of playing a guitar player (who taught music theory as a day job) started to show me how the theory relates to what one is playing. The theory combined with practical experience totally opened a whole new world. My view is a musician needs both or you will hit a ceiling at some point. The more you learn the better player you will become.

Robert

[basilh]

I'm reminded of an old story about Hank Williams Sr., who once had a player in the backing band who put some passing (minor) chords in "Cold, Cold Heart". Hank quickly admonished the guy by telling him..."I wrote the damn song, and there ain't no minors in it!"

Peace

Precisely why one needs to understand the writer's intent. That, I'm afraid takes musical knowledge to get there; with some of us it's instinct, but either way there are those who know whether a piece is being played correctly and there are those who are fooled by the excuse "Artistic Licence", to reharmonise and generally mess around with the chords structure and melody just for the sake of doing it.

Personally I find that to alter the chord structure to the good is beneficial and an art in itself, and to alter the cord structure to the bad and call it "Interpretation" is a cop out for lack of diligence.

I take no prisoners with regard to this subject, to me a musician is someone who UNDERSTANDS music and plays it, a performer is NOT necessarily so, and an Artiste is someone beyond that level of comprehension and capabilities.
Christopher Woitach is on the right wavelength, AND he is taking his musical knowledge gleaned from years of playing "regular" guitar (very well I may add) and is adapting it to steel guitar. In a few short years he has surpassed what some have spent their lifetime trying to do. I applaud him and totally agree with his comments.
Those who think they know would do well to listen to those who do know. He is one who does, I recognise a kindred spirit when I see/hear one ! AND likewise I recognise the Bluffers !

[Don R Brown]

I'm NOT a veteran player and not a natural musician. But on more than one occasion I will be "messing around" and something just rolls off the strings sounding just right and I think "Where did THAT come from, I never played this song before!" Then when I analyze it, it was just a part of a scale that my fingers and ear took over from habit.

You have nothing to lose by learning both. Nothing wrong with spending part of your time on scales, part on the songs themselves.